April 18, 2022

Coding Dojo Coding Bootcamp Review (Should You Go There in 2022?)


I invited on 3 graduates from the coding bootcamp Coding Dojo to share their experience with the software engineering program. As usual, my goal is to get past the marketing BS and hear the REAL experiences of graduates. We dove into the pros AND the cons. Enjoy!

Guests:
Jacob Rochefort - https://www.linkedin.com/in/jacob-rochefort
Julian Martinez - https://www.linkedin.com/in/julian-martinez-fullstackdeveloper
Adrian Acosta - https://www.linkedin.com/in/aacosta11

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Transcript
Don Hansen:

Welcome back to another podcast episode where we help aspiring developers get jobs and junior developers grow. So with this podcast episode, we're going to be reviewing coding dojo. We did a review a while back. It's been a while. So I want to do a recent review. I've added on three graduates to give their real stories. And if you watch my episodes before it, you know, I like to get past the marketing BS of what coding bootcamp is, spit out. I like to dig into the real experiences. So that's what we're going to do. So like usual, we'll go ahead and start with our intros. A few questions for you, Jacob. Um, where you at or when did you graduate? Where are you at? In the job search. And what industry did you come from?

Jacob Rochefort:

Uh, so I graduated in November. Um, where am I at in the job search? I just started looking for a job again. Um, I just, I had a developer job and then it ended, and then now I'm looking for a job again and, um, it, what was the other question? Excuse me. Sorry. What it was my old industry. So I was right before, um, stuff happened in 2020. I was a, a Lyft driver. And then before that I was an insurance agent, so. Okay.

Don Hansen:

Cool. Sounds good. How about you, Julian?

Julian Martinez:

Yeah, so, uh, graduated in may of 2021. Uh, after that, uh, I did a little bit of job hunting, but really couldn't find anything. So I joined a different bootcamp, uh, code up to camp, uh, just graduated from Coda on April 1st. And so now I'm currently on the job market looking for anywhere to fit in and, um, you know, continuing my growth. Uh, the industry I came from, I'm a, I was a corporate recruiter, a high volume recruiter. So doing a lot of. Interaction with people, not a lot of technical experience there. So it was very humbling, uh, getting into the, uh, developing industry, if you will.

Don Hansen:

Yeah, it makes sense. Um, all right, cool. You'll be able to, later in the episode, share some of that comparison, I guess, between the two coding bootcamps. All right. How

Jacob Rochefort:

about you, Adrian?

Adrian Acosta:

Uh, I graduated last December, started totaled 21 and, um, I've been, I right now, I work at ups and as far as like, my job search goes for web development, it's been pretty good. I still say I'm like really in my job onstage, I landed an internship for this, um, this marketing company and it's a part-time position. So as ups. And so I'm just looking, I'm still looking for that role to like fully transition go from.

Don Hansen:

Alright. Cool. That sounds good. All right. Well, I usually go over that because people like to just tear backgrounds and stuff like that and see how things are going, but let's go ahead and jump into things. So, um, I guess we'll start with this. Why did you choose coding dojo over all other coding, boot camps,

Jacob Rochefort:

and anyone can talk,

Adrian Acosta:

uh, also, uh, for the most part, like they offer more stacks and it's honestly personal preference. Cause like, say you're like in a, in a buffet, I'm the, I'm the type to like, want variety on my plate. So when I saw there's three sex, I knew I wasn't going to enjoy one stack right away. So coming out of it, I would have a good idea of what these languages are about which one I'd like and take it from there. And that's actually what happened. So yeah, that's what it is for me. Okay,

Julian Martinez:

cool. Yeah, I have to agree with AGN on that. Um, it was the variety of being able to do, uh, Python and then Java, uh, and being able to identify, uh, what I can do with each one, uh, was the selling point. Um, I'm a veteran. So I used my PRD benefits to pay for my way to go through there. So that was the other reason. Uh, their vet pro their, their veteran department, uh, was the one that reached out to me was like, Hey, we can get you in and you can use these benefits. And so that what, that's what sold me as well.

Jacob Rochefort:

Okay. Uh, for me it was, I mean, yes, the three stacks were nice. Uh, another thing is they had advertised a pretty high placement. Uh, their recruiter was really nice. Uh, their marketing campaign on YouTube was very aggressive. And what I mean by that is every single time I got on YouTube, uh, it was a coding dojo ad for like three months, including after I finished the program. So in fact, even just me talking about it right now, I'm probably going to get some more ads about it. So, uh, it was the first one I saw it advertised and I started looking into coding bootcamps because I got it advertised for me. Uh, it looked into a bunch and then had settled on that one. Uh, we did, I did online, but they did have like a semi-local campus to me. Um, I didn't attend it because it was during the event, but, uh, so everybody was remote for everything. But, um, yeah, I mean, that was the big one for me. Okay. Oh, and then they offered a career services permanently afterwards, uh, which was a big selling point for me, uh, combined that with the decently high placement and the fact that they, one of their sales plans was that you could, uh, have. Take a percentage of what you, your wages, um, after like pay after once you have a job or whatever, um, it showed confidence. I didn't use that, but like Michelle confidence to me that they were confidence in your placement.

Don Hansen:

Okay. So that was the ISA that they offered. Yes.

Jacob Rochefort:

Yeah, I can. Okay. So thank you.

Don Hansen:

Well, I'm sorry to say, you're probably stuck with those ads. They're not going away at

Jacob Rochefort:

this point.

Don Hansen:

Um, all right. So I guess I'm going to jump into it and we can talk more about the program. So their full-time program is 14 weeks, right? Okay. That doesn't seem like a lot of time for three stacks. No,

Adrian Acosta:

uh, honestly it could have been longer. Like I would've been completely okay. With another month to be honest, probably needed

Julian Martinez:

honestly. Yeah, it was, it was way, again, being able to compare the two coding dojo and code. You know, I, I saw that doing it that way, doing coding dojo way, where you spend through everything for 14 weeks and got, you know, so two weeks was web development. Um, the front end, all the front end stuff, then four weeks Python, four weeks or four weeks, Java was just so much crammed in. And it almost seemed like they were just trying to push numbers out and try to get people to pass instead of really diving in and learning what you were doing. I got lost so many times, so yes. To, to go off your, your feedback. Yeah. 14 weeks was a very short amount of time to get everything done.

Jacob Rochefort:

Okay.

Don Hansen:

I feel like. So there's nothing wrong with the learning multiple stacks and, you know, Adrian, like you said, it was a bit of a preference you liked at board easily, essentially. You wanted to learn a bunch of stuff. Right? Um, one of my initial, uh, directors will Boston, my boss for my first developer position. Like he just, he experimented, he built anything. He built Xbox scripts when he was starting out. And like he built a, uh, a coaster is a mobile app where you just literally put your beer on it. I was dumbest app, but he just wanted to build it like, is anyone going to download it? Right. So he just, he experimented with a bunch of stuff. And so, you know, there are going to be personalities that love that sort of thing. And I think, you know, throughout your development career, you should be open to exploring different languages and different stacks. If they come up, you don't have to, you can specialize, right. But if you are open to it, you can learn different conventions and, um, you know, just learn different ways of, um, yeah. Essentially different conventions on how to do things and organize things just a little bit differently based on the framework. So. But when you do cram that into 14 weeks, there's not a lot of depths. I have a feeling, a lot of graduates are coming out of it and now they're starting to like really dive deeper. Now they're really having to reinforce a lot of what they're learning and maybe this isn't true for every single graduate, but after reviewing a lot of programs, 14 weeks generally, like usually people complain when they have to learn two stacks in three months. I mean, some people complain one stack in three months, depending on how well they, how well they do it. So, um, I mean, that's I, so would it be unfair to say that there's probably not a lot of depth in your learning when you're split between those three stacks and you might have to reinforce a lot of that and go deeper after you graduate? Uh,

Jacob Rochefort:

so there's definitely the expectation you're going to get deeper. I have found based off my conversations with other people in my program, as well as like other cohorts is what they're called. Um, it really depends on who you got as an instructor. Um, if you got an instructor that you could ask questions and new, the new everything really deep, it was a really well done, but, uh, there were some instructors, uh, but one of the other cohorts that, uh, I spoke with had a Python instructor that, uh, like wasn't any good and kind of disappeared after a few weeks. So they, uh, it's just a, it can be kind of hit or miss. I got lucky, I think because all the instructors I ran into had a very good understanding of, of all those stacks. But, um, I have heard that it can be kind of hit or miss. Okay. Yeah.

Adrian Acosta:

And they do provide like, like some optional after like the exam. Like there's some more like in-depth concepts, you can go over on your own. And I guess as like in shoved here, but like they're, they're optional, like after the exam, so you don't really have. Dive into it too. I mean, I liked that they included with that.

Don Hansen:

Do you feel like you have the time to do that or does it really

Jacob Rochefort:

okay.

Julian Martinez:

That's the thing is that they provided it, but there was no time to actually do it. You, you were responsible for your daily assignment. Uh, you're responsible for your daily assignments. And then trying to keep up with everybody as far as like the exams go, trying to make that red belt or black belt. And so, uh, so yeah, at the time to me, I felt wasn't there because I was stuck trying to stay still.

Jacob Rochefort:

Yeah, I had a very different experience, um, than it sounds like you guys did, or even the other people in my cohort. Um, I did, uh, Harvard CS, 50 intro to computer science right before I did the bootcamp. Um, so I had already had kind of like the basics down. Um, I also love learning, so I'm just prefacing and I, and I don't have, I didn't have anything going on. I wasn't working. I was just, I poured my savings into it and just had, uh, three months to get through the program and basically get a job immediately. Right. Like I was like, I gotta do that to survive. Um, I also don't mind dealing with us like, right. So I actually ran into the other problem where for me there wasn't enough content. Um, I would pour through all the content, uh, within like one to two weeks and have the entire month's work done already take the tests, have a perfect marks on it and then be hanging out just. Waiting for more content. That was actually one of the, uh, one of the only complaints that I had against them is that, uh, the recruiter told me it was self-paced. Um, and I understand where they're saying that, cause they're like, Hey, you have a month and here's all the stuff you need to get done. Like have it done by the end of the month, uh, to take the test. But if you finished too quickly, um, it's not, self-paced, you're just stuck there, not doing anything for like two weeks at a time. Um, because they won't push you onto the next cohort. Uh, they won't push you on to the next cohort because they're big on keeping the cohorts together. But then if you fall behind, they allow you to continuously retake it and rejoin other cohorts. So they're not actually that much about core that they just have a policy where they won't let you complete it faster. Um, which was very frustrating to me. But yeah, I, so like I did the Merton stack. I got that all done in one week. Um, it was a four week program. I shot through it. Yeah. Uh, it was, and then I just sat around and tutoring. Students because I had the extra time, um, for the, you know, uh, the other sex. I did also see that there were people who joined. And I don't know if you guys have this experience, people who joined the web fundamentals group, which was the first two weeks, uh, and the dropout rate in those first two weeks was pretty high because there were people who were in there who in our cohort, like in my web fund cohort, which was just, again, just the first two weeks, I had people who didn't even know how to right. Click, uh, on their computer. And for some reason, decided to sign up for a coding bootcamp. Um, and they did not make it through the first two weeks. Um, but they don't really offer refunds after the first, even like week. So, um, that was another thing that was a little interesting, but it's not for everybody. If you don't know how to write, like don't go to a coding boot camp folks. Um,

Don Hansen:

I want to unpack a couple of things unless you have a lot more.

Jacob Rochefort:

No, I mean, that was. Everything. Uh, the only other thing that I'd say was because I went so fast, I didn't really do the lectures. I did everything kind of self-talk and their online, uh, learning system, um, can vary based on what, uh, what section you're in. So if you're in Java, the Java section was being restructured as I was in it. And so because of that, there was a lot of stuff that was just like code examples that were just wrong and weren't working. Uh, and when I'd ask them about that, they'd go, well, it really like it's a net and it has holes in it and relies on the lectures to fill in those ones. Um, but then it was also supposed to be self-paced. So I kind of called them out for that as well. So overall I would have rated it like a four to five, like an eight out of 10. There were definitely some small holes. Uh, the Java, I still have access to it and it's already been massively improved, but at the time that I was going. Uh, it wasn't great. Um, and so because of that, it took me a while there to just get through the basic stuff. Right. But, uh, let's,

Don Hansen:

let's pause there. We'll have like tons of time to kind of explore in more depth with this, but I want to unpack a couple of things. So, you know, it sounds like you prepare, so I'm just going to ask, like, on average, how much sleep did you get per night? So,

Jacob Rochefort:

uh, I got plenty asleep because I get through the content really fast and then I would sleep fine. So like a for instance, I would, so I started the cohort on Monday or we actually would start to get access to the cohort on Friday. So, or they're not the cohort that new stack we'd get access to the stack on Friday, but we wouldn't at the end of the day. Uh, so we could work on it over the weekend to get ahead. And then we would start the class on Monday. Um, so I would try and get like I would on Friday at about 4:00 PM, we would get access and I would just stay up and work all through the night. So I wouldn't sleep. I'd pull an all-nighter and then I'd go to sleep the next night at like

probably 10:

00 PM and then sleep for eight hours, wake up and then. Uh, do the entire rest of the content, just busting it out. And that, um, I would have the first about week, week and a half done. Uh, and then I would sleep for a couple of days, uh, you know, do normal eight hour sleep nights while working during the day. Um, but even during those days it was, I'd wake up and I code and I'd be coding until I went to sleep because I, I don't know. I didn't have anything else going on. I kind of just dedicated myself to a completely, uh, when I got into it. So,

Don Hansen:

okay. I would argue you're an exception, not the rule and you, you stayed there. Right? Um, so my recommendation with this, um, it's just advice don't, don't code all the way throughout the night. A lot of people, I mean, it's going to be when you're going through an intense full-time coding bootcamp, even part-time, if you're trying to do it work on the side, like he got to give yourself time to really let a lot of these concepts solidify. Um, so I would think. I have a question about, so you mentioned people are coming into the coding bootcamp that didn't even know how to break clicks. So I'm going to be honest, I'm a little concerned with that and I feel like the app. So I guess my question is what kind of technical screening or any sort of screening did they do to make sure that you were actually prepared for the program?

Adrian Acosta:

Honestly, I don't remember any

Jacob Rochefort:

technical. Yeah. They just asked me over the phone if I had any experience or just wanted to know if you wanted to go pretty much, pretty much it, very little, very little oversight. Uh, they do say that you can kind of take it as many times as you need to, to get through it. Um, at least that was a big thing that was pushed. Like, Hey, if you fail all the tests and fall really bad behind, you can retake the stacks until you pass them. But, uh, yeah, there was no like, and

Adrian Acosta:

they, they had like a, an assessment, but like, I'm pretty sure it just let everyone says it just, I'm pretty sure. Do the prerequisites or something like that, which is just fun. So HTML,

Jacob Rochefort:

CSS, I think it was, they did offer a pre-boot camp thing that you could, that you could do. Um, I did the actual, like online program. I didn't actually, evidently there were actual like a class thing that you could attend that would extend it. So it was longer than 14 weeks. I only know that because one of the other cohorts that I talked to, uh, some of the people from there, because the cohorts and mix at the end of every stack, they switch up. So I'd occasionally run into whenever the stacks would end and we'd be switched up. I would talk to the people within their stacks, but, um, a couple of them actually got like an extra three or four weeks where they did like a pre bootcamp bootcamp thing. Um, but I found it out later to say,

Don Hansen:

okay, well do you have, so I hear that it's mainly self-paced you have a lot of group work in the program.

Julian Martinez:

No. Yeah, unless, unless it was unless you and teammates decided to work together, uh, that was the only time that like, it wasn't, it wasn't something that they, it wasn't a requirement that they had, like going through Coda. We had a bunch of pair programming assignments, and that was really, I enjoyed that very much. And wished coding dojo had offered that as well. It was forced it a little more to make teams work together and get that

Adrian Acosta:

the algorithms every morning you get put in a breakout room and it's like, so ideally you're supposed to log collaborate, but like, in my experience, it didn't always work. Like, uh, sometimes those, everyone with the cameras off and like working by themselves. So yeah, probably, yeah.

Don Hansen:

I in sometimes you'll hear about those issues and other programs, but it's essentially the coding boot camps, Chubb, to try to reinforce it. If you really want to ensure like that as a staple to the value that you offer with the coding bootcamp. So it sounds like they really didn't hold people accountable for that as much, and you get away with it. That's a choice they made. That's fine. I can see. So, you know, when you don't get screened out, you can come in with a variety of skill levels, right? Your whole cohort can be at a different level. And if you're doing group work, is it possible that someone is just going to be completely oblivious to what's going on and just, they need more time to ramp up to be able to work with you through that problem? Uh,

Jacob Rochefort:

yes and no, it kind of depends on the stack and sorry to just be quick on the draw there with the response, but, um, The, the web fund is the first two weeks. You have to make it through that. And then you have Python for the first step. Everybody starts with Python. Um, if you don't and you keep the same cohort from web fund to Python, if you don't pass Python, you can't go onto the other stacks. Um, and if you like, they just won't let you into the other stacks. So everybody into, in my case, I did Java on Myrna. It sounds like you did that to Julian. Um, for Java and Myrna, I at least knew that the people knew enough to get through Python and pass it. So they weren't like, they didn't have no idea what was happening, but, uh, yeah, in web fund, I worked with people who, I mean, I saw a lot of people just fail out a web font and it was just basic HTML, CSS. Um, it barely introduced Java script at the end. And there were people that were not able to pass that. And so, um, cause again, there were a couple of people who didn't actually even know how to right. Click when they started that wasn't a joke. I didn't believe that there were people who didn't not a right click. And then we were on a live zoom call and they were asking, right. Yeah.

Don Hansen:

I believe you. I do. I mean, that's what happens when you have no screening like that whatsoever. Um, but they do it. So it sounds like they do let you roll back. Um, do they charge extra if you roll back?

Jacob Rochefort:

Uh, I'm sorry, Adrian. Uh, I'm pretty sure they do a, I forgot

Adrian Acosta:

what the fee was.

Jacob Rochefort:

The, yeah, I thought it was after you rolled back more than so many times you get charged, but, um, then I

Julian Martinez:

think, yeah, the chapter one rollback. You get one and then after that you have to pay.

Adrian Acosta:

Yeah. you have three tries on the exam.

Jacob Rochefort:

Yes. Yeah. Okay.

Don Hansen:

Okay. Um, okay. I don't know how I feel about that is so they're not charging initially. So I thought they were trying to be lenient with dis offering. Like that's their model. They just do. You need to roll back two or three times. That's fine. That's why we didn't screen you. Right. But now I get this feeling that like, this feels a little bit more. Profit-driven like everyone just signups. We can get as much money as possible. And we're going to have a model to try to prevent you from moving on to the next section. But then if they're going to be charging people. You see, like you can get rolled if you're not prepared at all. Like you can get rolled back a couple of times. Right. And if they don't properly screen that, that's a big deal. That's a big problem. And now they're going to charge you extra because they failed at their job to screen you and make sure that you're actually prepared for the program like this. Pre-work I hear that there's pre-work required. Um, but it sounds like they're not even holding people accountable for like, truly understanding that pre-work and HTML and CSS. That's not gonna prepare you for programming. Like, it'll give you a little exposure to get some front end website up, but like, that's not going to give, um, instructors like a, um, I guess like an aptitude, uh, mark, like where you currently are with how you're going to do for the rest of the program, especially with the logic portion of it. This feels like a hole. And then I hear that there might be other good parts of the program, but this feels like, like my strong advice. And you guys correct me if you completely disagree. My strong advice is to definitely take a few months of your own time. Really get the fundamentals down before you dive in, like get comfortable with HTML, CSS and JavaScript, or like whatever. I mean, I don't think you should learn all three languages before you go into the program, but using one programming language in general to learn fundamentals of programming, it sounds like all students should seriously consider doing that before they just sign up because you can't trust a coding bootcamp to prevent you from signing up until you're ready.

Jacob Rochefort:

Yeah. Uh, I, I met one to talk about the rollbacks just for another second. I met one guy who had, uh, it was just third time trying, uh, And, um, to my knowledge, she hadn't been charged anything extra. So I have no idea how many rollbacks you get, but, um, for him specifically, it was his third time. And

Don Hansen:

yeah, that's the question asked, done admissions, you know, how many times can I roll back without getting charged?

Julian Martinez:

Yep.

Jacob Rochefort:

Okay.

Don Hansen:

Um, all right. Let's dive a little bit deeper into it. Um, in Jacob, you kind of elaborated quite a bit and feel free to respond as well, but Julian and Adrian, especially like how were your experiences with the program?

Jacob Rochefort:

Um,

Adrian Acosta:

mostly positive, mostly, uh, like the instructors, at least I really liked all of my instructors, but, um, I, um, I'll be honest. I was a little scared when I saw my Python instructor, cause he was really young and I was like a couple of years older than me. So I could only imagine what it's like for like an older, older developer. So, and it, it didn't help that he was also in his like job hunt and he got an offer like midway through the stack. He had to go and then TA had to take over. But, um, I think I'd say I got the best experience from the, um, an instructor with the most experience in the industry, for sure. Like snake sense and yeah, pretty

Julian Martinez:

much now. Yeah. I mean, had I had done this interview last year, I would have definitely given it a four, four and a half, you know, I'm doing it now. I give it three and a half, uh, going through coding dojo. I'm being code up. I honestly give it a three, three and a half. Uh, it helped me understand what I was getting myself into. It humbled me very much. Um, but yeah, I, I, I feel like, like your last comment made you had made, uh, here recently is it was more about the money and down getting people pushed through and almost. It felt, uh, it felt almost as if they were

Jacob Rochefort:

teaching

Julian Martinez:

you how to pass the exam and not teaching you what you do. And so to understand, and truly get an understanding of what you're doing. You've had to do your own research. And I understand it's a self paced kind of program, but, uh, to spend $14,000 on program and not have that help and then have TAs essentially come out and help you and say, oh, well, we're going to have to find another TA. And then you just get bounced around between TAs. There's no instructor to really, for me, at least there was no instructor to really help out. There was one instructor and he was my instructor the whole way through, I was, I was one of the fortunate ones to have the same instructor for, uh, for Python learn and Java. And so, uh, uh, Being able to have him. He was definitely influential on me being able to get through the whole program, but without him being my instructor, I really don't think it would've been impossible, but I've heard horror stories from other classmates and their experience with other instructors as well. So, you know, if I, again, given an, a rating after going through up, there's a lot to be left. There's a lot

Jacob Rochefort:

to be desired.

Julian Martinez:

There, go a lot to be desired with coding dojo. Uh, that, that, I just wish I would've known back then.

Don Hansen:

Yeah. That makes sense. Um, well it sounds like you can get a really good instructor or a really bad one. Um, it sounds like it's polarized like that and you know, I'm sure they're putting in the effort to like, it's hard to retain instructors sometimes and TAs, and I understand stuff like that does come up. Um, but. It's. I mean, it's something like that will completely change your experience. If you have a bad instructor that all, that $14,000 price mark reduces down to like 4,000, right. It's no longer worth anywhere close to that. So, you know, for the people that do have that bad experience with an instructor, you know, that's a big deal and hope I'm sure do they, they probably like collect feedback of like how their instructors are doing okay. So that's important. Um, and hopefully they're taking that feedback. Um, seriously, I got a comment. Um, you couldn't make it to the review, but he mentioned there's a major skill gap between the instructor and the TA is like a very major skill back. And so.

Jacob Rochefort:

Oh, I'm sorry. So most of the TA's are fresh. The TA's are fresh students. Like they just graduated and then they have applied to be a TA while they continue to look for a job, um, they just get paid an hourly amount and they, they clock on help out as many students as they can, but the TA's are also lopsided. There are more TAs available for certain stacks than there are for others. Like for example, Java has almost no TAs because, uh, almost nobody wants to TA for Java because it's just a little harder. Uh, one of my yellow flags before going into the program was also a lot of the instructors are also students. Um, there'll be a TA for X number of time, and then they'll become instructors. Um, once they can demonstrate that they know more about the programs and stuff. So, and that's how we can kind of get instructors that are also still looking for jobs. Right. Um, So that was, that was something that I noticed. Uh, you mentioned the surveys. If they try to feedback, uh, they take the, it becomes a joke. How many surveys we get, uh, you get surveys, uh, you get daily surveys, you get weekly surveys and then you get a stack like quarterly surveys, right? So once a, once a stack, you get a survey, uh, every day when you log on, um, there is more than likely a survey waiting for you to fill out before, to let you do anything. And then as you finish the sack, you got to fill out that survey. Um, and then they'll stack surveys, right? So you'll fill out the daily survey and then it'll be time for the weekly survey. So as soon as you fill that out, it'll give you a weekly survey. And then, oh, you just finished your stack. You filled that out. Now the stack survey pops up, right? It can be funny sometimes how many surveys there are. Um, and they, they, they make jokes about it. On top of that, you can also leave comments anywhere on their programs. Uh, you can highlight and then right. Click and leave a comment to say, Hey Mike, there's a spelling error here. There's a code problem here. Different things like that. So you can give feedback on a more specific case by case to. Okay, but you did ask how much they take this feedback and there are lots of avenues. I did find that my experience with other people, you definitely have to speak up, to get people, to give you help. Um, if you're just quiet, uh, they'll just assume that you're working away and not doing anything. Um, I'm loud and demand to be helped if I need it. So I was able to get help, but

Don Hansen:

that's good feedback. And a lettuce students are quiet. A lot of students are quiet. So I mean, even like in person where everyone's in front of an instructor, like you'll still have a good chunk of the class that won't ask that question. Like they're afraid of being embarrassed or, you know, they're just kind of waiting. Maybe it'll be answered. You know, there are a lot of different reasons why people don't speak up, but yeah, that's, that's really good feedback. Um, how big we're so I guess one thing, one last question. Would the instructors, how big were your cohorts and did you just have one instructor for your.

Adrian Acosta:

Um, yes.

Julian Martinez:

Yeah. For, for me, for Java, when I went through the Java, they had like four instructors because not one really understood what they were doing. And, and so, uh, the instructor, I, I, I speak highly about, uh, Sarov. He, uh, he actually didn't know Java and he ended up leading the class in instructing the class. Uh, as far as the other sex though, I only had one instructor. Um, and along with the TAs, uh, the assigned TAs to that class, it was only when it shipped in that clinicals. Okay.

Jacob Rochefort:

So my experience, it was about 30 people at the beginning of each cohort. Uh, we had one instructor and then one to two TA depending on the, uh, the stack. Um, I got a, I had a different teacher for like web fund and Python, same teacher, every other stack was a different teacher, um, and a different coping. And so we would be mixed. Uh, I did notice kind of what Julian was saying, and I'm very sorry if I'm mispronouncing your name, Julian. Um, okay, perfect. Um, the teachers kind of seems like they're shuffled around too. So some of them are like, no, I'm clearly a Python teacher and then there'll be shuffled into, uh, teaching Java when they need more Java instructors. And so that's how you can kind of get those situations.

Don Hansen:

Okay.

Adrian Acosta:

Yeah. Mine was like Jacobs, just one chapter and it's like, well, I will max two TA's. I was wanting for one

Don Hansen:

class though. How big was your

Adrian Acosta:

cohort? Uh, I think actually like around 20 people on each one. Okay. I think the lowest amount was 13 or 15. I'm not too sure.

Jacob Rochefort:

Yeah. And that's why I said at the beginning of the cohort, because there was always going to be people who like dropped.

Julian Martinez:

Yeah. It ranged for me like 25 to 35. It's we each set,

Don Hansen:

that's it? Um, that's a big ratio sexually, a pretty big, I can see some, like if the cohort is your size, especially Julian, it's going to be a little bit harder to get that instructors intention, even with two TAs, that's still, it's not a favorable ratio. Um, and you're going to complicate it by like having a tons of people in that cohort potentially that aren't even prepared for, especially with that first section that aren't even prepared for it as well. Um, that's going to make the instructors auntie's jobs much, much harder, um, placement rates. So. It looks like they advertise 80 or 89.1%. So kudos to them because a lot of coding, boot camps will say, yeah, you know, 90%. And they won't really include the year. And it's from like 2019 before everything happened. Right. It's like, okay, they're at least saying, okay. 89.1 in 2019. Right. Because you know, like 90% and up is it's pretty much BS through 2020 and 2021 for almost every single program. And I I've done a bunch of episodes. You can watch them or listen to them talking about like, exactly how they are able to get away with displaying these numbers. Um, One question. I would ask admissions specifically before you even go in. Let's see if they have any integrity and honesty is what actually excludes student data from that criteria. Right? So a lot of times coding boot camps will exclude that criteria. If you roll back, if you roll back, you are not kind of that typical student that will graduate on time. And that's usually the phrase that you're gonna look for in different reports. And so that 89.1% do they include students that do get rolled back, ask that question. It's really important. Um, and just ask, like what other criteria would exclude student data from this? Right? What happens like. And again, it's like students stat, like weren't prepared and eventually have to like drop out, even if they get that refund. Because like, you know, the PR sometimes the program is going to be designed for that student. That's the whole point of admissions to make sure it's a good fit. And so a lot of times that data gets dropped as well. And so it just continues to bump up that placement numbers. So, you know, I'm not going to dig into their reports or statistics, but those are really good questions to ask admissions. And I'm telling you, it's like, If it's not 89.1 and they started like, the admissions is actually a little bit more honest about it. Like we do exclude these rollbacks, et cetera, you know, that's, that's not necessarily a terrible thing. If admissions is just completely lying about it. And like there's no, they can't back up their data whatsoever with any of that criteria. That should be a red flag. I think like, you know, usually a co that's the thing, a lot of coding, I'm not going to get into it, but a lot of coding, boot camps are just trying to push that placement number up. Cause that's all people care about. But now like a lot of programs are dishonest about it. So

Julian Martinez:

I'm also curious to know like if the TAs are in that number, in

Jacob Rochefort:

fact, most likely they usually

Julian Martinez:

ask. So yeah, but I mean, you know, that's how I felt. I felt like if you couldn't get, if they couldn't find you a job outside of the coding dojo, they would just hire you on as TA. So their numbers could stay. That's how I felt. I don't know.

Don Hansen:

That's very possible. A lot of coding, boot camps do that. And a lot of people don't realize that's what bumps up the number. Good.

Jacob Rochefort:

Uh, just a quick thing to add. So they were, um, cause I did ask them a bunch of questions and looked into the hiring number quite a bit. I looked at the actual, like, I have a PDF of the study that they published for it. Uh, it's published by a third party, uh, and it's people who got a job within six months of graduating. So I think it only looked at graduates. Um, I don't know any details beyond that. Well, I can't remember them. Um, but yeah, so it's definitely worth looking into more. Uh, I was going to say though, for the TA in order to be a TA, you had to get perfect Marston, all the tests, um, throughout the course, um, they were pretty strict on that. And then in order to be, uh, to go from a TA to a teacher, you had to be a TA for X number of time. Um, right. So it wasn't just, anyone could be a TA. It was only the people who already got the grading system. They have, um, a yellow belt and a black belt where you failed the test. So if you get a, if you knew the standard requirements, it's yellow belt. If you go above and beyond you get what's called a black belt and you had to get a black belt on all three of them. Uh, the stacks to get, um, get here. I was just trying to jump in there, Julian. I thought, well, that was my experience. And that's what I was told by all the instructors. But, uh, you know, maybe they changed that or something, but yeah.

Don Hansen:

Well, that's important information to know, um, some coding, boot camps just launch their TAs right into instructor positions. Um, just because they're desperate for an instructor, right. They have those hard requirements. Good for them. Um, let's jump into career services. It sounds like, you know, that was a big selling point and some coding boot camps will drop it after like six months. And which I think is pretty ridiculous. It doesn't sound like coding dojo does that, but yeah. How, how were your experiences with that?

Julian Martinez:

I, I'm sorry to, to compare the two between code and coding dojo a bit going between the two career services, uh, coding dojo. They, they say they offer like a health building. Uh, Creating your resume, cover letter and all that things, but there was never really a workshops. And if there were workshops, uh, it was very few, few and far between. So like you had one, one month and then maybe six months down the road, you might have another. And if you couldn't make that one month, you're expecting them to send you the recording of it. And then career services is not sending you the recordings. They're not sending you any decks to, to like, you know, teach yourself on how to create, uh, a good resume, how to sell yourself basically. So, uh, it lacked the career. Uh, at least for me, I, my, my, um, my personal career service representative, if you will, he was, he lacked very much compared to code and code up is on it. And it's like, you know, every so often they're reaching out to me. They're like, Hey, what's, what's going on with your job search. And they require you to do. Job applications per week, you know, in order because Kona has a money back guarantee as well. So if they don't, if you don't get a job within six months of graduating, that'd be the year, your money back on percent. So there's certain things we have to do as well. So they're staying on top of where coding dojo. They're just very relaxed.

Adrian Acosta:

Okay. Yeah. Like I, I kind of fell off my career services manager, like at, at the start. It's just that I didn't feel prepared to like start applying cause like I wanted to finish my, my personal projects. So I told him I needed some time. Then once he thought I was ready, he, he suggested that I, I applied to a hundred, um, J jobs or something like that. I'm not even sure if he was serious about that. That's just like way too many. And I just thought it was just too rough. He did help me with my resume and as, and he was like really professional. It seemed like he didn't know he was talking about, but I just felt like I didn't really

Jacob Rochefort:

need it so much. So. Okay. So, um, I got help with career services, you know, a lot of stone because as I talked about, I had a lot of spare time. And then it's also, um, I talked earlier about how sometimes, like you just have to speak up and demand help. Um, I, the way I saw it, I paid for it. And so if I messaged one of them and wasn't able to get help, I would just go systematically through messaging every single one of them until I got a response. Um, we all have a discord server that were added to from the beginning. Um, once I got my one career services guy, I was pretty well set. Um, he did everything from, help me daily on my resume, uh, setting up my LinkedIn. And then, um, I got a job within three weeks of lead, anything, uh, The coding down and I worked that for the last three months. Um, and then I'm only just now searching for a job again. So, I mean, but I was not, as we talked about more of the exception, right. I was doing 50 plus, uh, job applications a day plus running my, uh, resume plus, um, doing my LinkedIn. And I got to, I keep a spreadsheet of all the different things. I got to 269 job applications before I got a job offer. Uh, and then, but I wanted a job offer within the next couple of weeks. I've gotten more people that have reached out since then, because I applied for so many jobs over such a short period of time. That to this day, I continue to get like rejection emails from people that I applied to four or five months, six months ago. And I think that's hilarious that some companies take that long to, uh, to look for people, but that's the case. Uh, and then I get emails from career services. Uh, about once every few days to once a week with new, with jobs that are hiring right now. Um, and with any programs that coding dojo does in connection with other companies, um, you also, you get on once a month. Well, cause I was running into, they've been changing it up. So I got, um, they used to have a spreadsheet and they just discontinued it where they would just post updates on what jobs were hiring and what jobs weren't hiring. It was called the career corner. Uh, and then they just discontinued that and they've switched to doing an email system. Um, I've gotten a lot of emails recently because they sent out an email and messed up some of the links and then corrected the email and then sent it out. Uh, they still have messed up links, so they sent out a third one, so I got three really rapidly. Uh, and then it was a few days after that. I got another one with just two more. Um, and then I just applied to those. Um, and then different career services guys take entirely different approaches to how you do it. Some people are like some of the career services managers are very big on just like apply as much as possible. Uh, mine was actually like, Hey, get a LinkedIn, start going to networking events, uh, shoot for like 20 to 30 a week. And, you know, just kind of keep hitting it, keep working on your stuff, try to network so that you can try and get referrals because referrals have a much higher, higher rate. Um, they have closer to like, I think you said like a 40% higher rate versus, uh, you have like a 4%, if it's just a base application you're sending in, um, I took a different approach than what he recommended because I heard 4% went. Okay. So I only have to turn in like three or 400 applications to guarantee a job. Uh, and then just did whatever I could to get to that number as fast as possible. Um, and I mean, that worked so, um, that's, uh, that was my experience with career services and with the, uh, the initial job around

Don Hansen:

okay. 40%. That's interesting. I should she do a podcast episode and just, I brought on a few hiring managers a long time ago. I wonder if they'd be willing to share stats like that. I don't know. Let me think about it. Uh, how prepared did you feel for getting hired for a professional developer position after you graduated coding dojo

Adrian Acosta:

immediately after and not paired at all? Cause I, I was honestly, I was kind of scared cause like my portfolio is lacking. Um, part of the reason why I went to coding dojo, cause I thought I would already have like a pretty nice portfolio, but like, you don't really need to do like the personal projects, like what they're claiming was going to be your portfolio. So like my, my portfolio was like, non-existent I got out. And so I had to take some time,

Julian Martinez:

you just

Adrian Acosta:

go, just go for, go for a chance. I was scared. Like I got a job that was like asking for like minimal requirements and it just so happened that I was able to get the job. So in

Julian Martinez:

school I don't feel I was prepared. Uh, you know, uh, once I graduated a buddy of mine that graduated with me, uh, he got a job fairly quickly and uh, he explained, uh, He explained the importance of GitHub and pushing things to get. And coding dojo really didn't emphasize that as much. And it, they showed you one day, this is get hub. This is how you use it. And that was it, you know? Um, and so when my buddy was like, yeah, you need to be pushing to get hub. And everyday you need to be, uh, collaborating with other people doing pull requests, just pay familiar data because a lot of companies use it. And, uh, you know, so that was just proving my point that I wasn't ready for the workforce. And that imposter syndrome really took over for a little while, you know, and then, uh, I was fortunate enough to get it to walk from there.

Jacob Rochefort:

Uh, for me, um, I knew imposter syndrome was going to be a huge thing just in this field in general. Um, I also knew that, um, I just know that I'm a fast learner, right? Like I talked about that towards the beginning. I just, I know that I'm good at absorbing new information. Uh, and I figured with enough applications, uh, anybody could get on there. So, um, you know, and that's a lot of my confidence comes from my ability to just like pick things up once I'm on the job. And, um, yeah, I mean, I did, uh, like the stacks I did were Python learning Java, but then when I got hired, it was for software engineering and they immediately throw me into TypeScript. So it wasn't even like a language that I was familiar with. I just had to learn

Adrian Acosta:

it up. Okay.

Don Hansen:

I feel like I have a good, a good understanding of this program. Um, I'm trying to think if I have any other questions. I don't think I do. I feel that. I mean, it's just interesting that they're teaching three stacks initially. You don't really hear about that. Um, I get to S so here's my recommendation and correct me once I'm done with it. If you disagree with anything, essentially, they're not gonna hold you accountable for if you're prepared for the program, it's just what it sounds like. Right? So you do your due diligence and make sure that you're prepared. And so I would even ask admissions, like, Hey, you know, I watched your Don's podcast. Like, don't, don't bullshit me. Like, what can I actually do to make sure I'm actually prepared for this? Cause I guarantee you staff from every single coding bootcamp at this point, like my podcast gets shared with them by a student, at least one staff. And so. Really try to dig in and make sure that your prepared you're, you're going to be, if you're prepared and you succeed in the program, you're going to be a good positive statistic and they can sell their program to more students. Right. It's a, it's a win-win for both parties, but yeah, I think you're going to probably have to explore programming language outside of just HTML and CSS. It almost feels like HTML and CSS was a more of a supplement, whereas like maybe you will tackle it with web development modules, um, when you're going into the program, but it almost feels like they have, you kind of learn a lot of those fundamentals and, but they don't really have you understand. Fundamental programming concepts so that you can tackle all three of these different stacks, uh, with a lot of knowledge and you're well prepared and you're not cramming till the end of the night and pulling all nighters like Jacob and, um, you know, like, so this can pre discon make this entire coding dojo experience, especially with self-taught much, much more tolerable and you'll be much more successful if you just prepare. So essentially what I'm saying, don't trust them to screen you out. They're going to accept anyone. And so going into it, I would almost argue, even if you do prepare three stacks in 14 weeks, Give yourself a little time. Um, it sounds like, you know, the instructors that you get is probably going to matter, but sometimes you can switch instructors depending on like, which stack that you're learning. So that can be convenient. It sounds like you need to be very proactive. And if you are proactive and asking questions, reaching out. That's when you get the help that you need. I think everyone should take Jacob's stance. Like absolute, like just spam them. If they, if you're not getting your answer, quite frankly, like you're paying a lot of money. Like you need to reach out and make sure you get the help that you get. Cause I can see a lot of students from coding dojo. They're falling back. They're not asking questions, they're not being proactive. And to me that's a little bit of a weakness of coding dojo. So if you're proactive again, it's one more thing to solidify a good experience at that program. And so it also sounds like the career services can kind of be a hit or miss Jacob, you mentioned like, you know, you can get wildly different advice depending on who you're talking to. I really loved the advice of networking of reaching out. Like it's so powerful. It's so powerful. So you don't have to, you're still applying to a lot of positions, but you can really reduce that number through networking the referrals. That's an interesting percentage. I want to ask a few other people like where they would put that percentage, but that's. Actually quick follow up, Jacob, did you mean, so it's 4% with basically a cold application. You said 40%, is that 40% in addition to that 4% or you have a 40% chance of getting that job, if you have a referral,

Jacob Rochefort:

I think it was the 40% to get the job. And I don't know if the number that they gave me was 40% or if it was like 60%, like, I can't remember exactly what it was. I know when I was doing, uh, insurance, uh, it was also very, very I with referrals. Uh, your referrals were much more likely to stick around in the business. They were much more likely to get hired. They were much more likely to all sorts of things. So, um, yeah, different businesses I've worked at also, I did want to specify you're assigned a CSM and then you work with them and so different CSMs will give different advice. I think you can switch CSMs if you want to, but, uh, yeah, you can, you're kind of just there, like, here's your CSM, you're assigned one. What is that? A career services manager. Okay. Do you get assigned a career services? I will also say, and this is something that is not going to matter to probably anyone, but they don't have any international jobs support. So if I want to look for jobs in other countries, they are like, we don't have any expertise on that. And they told me that from the forefront, that was nothing like that was something I knew going into the program. But, uh, yeah, I, and then I, I got done with my first job that I just worked, uh, programming, and then I immediately messaged my career services. And, uh, within a few days we had an entirely updated resume, updated LinkedIn. Um, well

Don Hansen:

lost someone. Yep. Keep going. They'll probably reconnect. Yeah,

Jacob Rochefort:

you're good. And then, uh, if it helps anybody to kind of a day. Uh, we would wake up, start at, I think it's like 9:00 AM is what

you start class eight, 9:

00 AM. And then you do morning algos for like an hour, and then you did three hours of lecture, and then you have a lunch and three hours, four hours of just like work by yourself, time, then another small lecture and like meet up. And that it would be the day is over. Um, and you can continue to work during the free work times. And even during the, uh, after the work times, the zoom calls were just kind of like open with the rooms. And so you could go to the rooms and, uh, you could work with other people if you wanted or work alone and just sit in your own room. Um, and then occasionally TAs would jump from room to room to just make sure everything was

Don Hansen:

okay. Good. Extra information. I appreciate that.

Jacob Rochefort:

Uh,

Don Hansen:

I guess I do have one more question because I feel like I just wrapped it up. I pretty much summarized what I thought of it. Um, but I feel like you guys did a much better job at summarizing it anyways, so, and that's an interesting point about the international support. I, my audience is actually 60% from the United States, which is, it shocks me all. The advice I give is for getting jobs in the United States. So 40% is outside. So I guarantee you, some people are probably questioning that. Um,

Jacob Rochefort:

I actually looked at an international, uh, coding school was one of the other ones that I looked at. I think it was based out of, uh, I want to say Poland, but I can't remember exactly what, but it was a, uh, it was another program that I had looked into. So I can say

Julian Martinez:

about coding dojo is that they did offer like international students to, to join their program. I know in my cohort, uh, we had, uh, we had one lady that was from the UK. And so her hours and being able to try to figure everything out in order to go to lecture, you can do that at the cheap. She really went above and beyond. She, you know, it was late hours for her while it was day out. So, uh, so I thought that was pretty cool about coding. You know, international students to join as well.

Jacob Rochefort:

Yeah, it just specified, I was talking about the group services. I think that's awesome. I didn't have any international students that I know of, but uh, that's. I mean, that's, that's incredible. That's great. In my video,

Don Hansen:

that is actually really cool because a lot of, um, eh, I, it depends on the country. Depends on the local area. A lot of people just don't have access to good education and I get questions like, Hey, you know what? Coding boot camps are going to accept international students. And I, it's not really a question. I commonly ask people. So, I mean, we know for coding dojo, that's pretty cool. Um, but yeah, you should expect, I mean, and there are like kind of international, well, coding, boot set usually are known for accepting international students. You can look that up. Um, but I would argue some of those coding boot camps keep teaching Ruby, which I think is a huge flop, but that's another conversation in itself. Um, All right. So yeah, his wifi went out. Uh, so he's going to try to come back out as soon as possible, but we'll wrap up with this question if, uh, who who's going to be successful in this program and who isn't

Jacob Rochefort:

you want to take that Julian to start?

Julian Martinez:

Yeah. To start, uh, who's going to be successful. Uh, someone that is someone that's willing to do the research on their own and really understand that it's self-paced and you have to do the work. If you're coming into the program thinking, oh, you know, I'm changing careers and I'm going to learn how to code and I'm going to be this next mark Zuckerberg. You know, you're coming in with the wrong attitude. You definitely have to come in humble and ready to do the work. And if that's not you, if you're not ready to put it in. 10 to 12 hours of coding today, 12 hours of researching, you know, definitely might not want to come through this.

Jacob Rochefort:

Okay. That actually reminds me one thing that I will add is they, uh, my understanding is they won't bring you into the program if you have a full-time job at the time. Um, because they're like, you just won't have enough time. Um, however, one of my buddies have three part-time jobs and, uh, he completed the program. One of the smartest guys. I know, but, uh, um, yeah, my recommendation, uh, first off, I just recommend take the Harvard CS 54. So that's free online, uh, as a prep course for this, just take the first, like four or five weeks. It's a part-time thing. So it's, they only, they say you should only be spending 10 hours a week, so you can bust it out. And the first four weeks, you know, one week, if you do a 40 hour week, right. So, uh, don't have a job while you're doing it. Be self motivated. Demand help when you need it, like be willing to speak up and outgoing with it. I, my cohorts were always very talkative and very loud, but I heard that that was not the case with most, uh, a contributor of that. Might've been that I'm just a very loud talkative person, which tends to encourage other people to be allowed to talk to people. Right. So like, I'm not going to act like that's not the case. Right. But, uh, but, um, there's definitely a lot more interaction there. Um, I would also scout out which stacks you're going for. I'm in, I'm in the Portland area. Uh, and so they were doing, um, Java Myrna and Python Python. Everybody's going to get, but then instead of Java, um, my friends who were up in Seattle did C sharp, um, which can be, you know, quite a big difference coming out of it into the, into the job. Uh, John market, uh, work with career services while you're still doing it and make sure you don't have a job, I would say, make sure you can just like set everything aside and just work the tend to, you know, 8, 10, 12 hours a day that there's sometimes going to push for. They actually give you a calendar at the very beginning and they're like, This is what your daily schedule is going to look like. This is how many hours are going to work. This is what your stress level should be at throughout the program. Um, for each like stack, um, they tell you don't take weekends off, but I found that if you do all the work in one day, you can have a lot of time to free, uh, free time. But, um, yeah, I'm trying to remember. I know that there were a couple other things that, uh, I was thinking of adding there while we were talking about, uh, I think that's everything for me, just being really, really, um, focused. Uh, the, one of the other things I saw mentioned was the portfolio building was based off projects. Uh, the projects at the end are all optional, but they they're optional. They're semi optional. Like they're not going to drop you from the program if you don't do them, but they are extremely strongly encouraged. So the programs we actually spend only three weeks now working on the stack. And then we spend the last week working on the project. Um, you're encouraged to work, uh, as part of a team, but again, it's not required. Uh, and then we all show off our projects at the end. Um, By the time you get through the program, you look back at your old projects and you're like, Hey, that looks like trash, right? Especially if you end on Morne, because then you learn react and all your programs front end don't or your projects front ends. I don't look very well. It is web development focused, not software engineering focused, which isn't going to be a major thing. They advertise that from the beginning, but these are just like notes to know. Um, that said I went into software engineering and I didn't have a problem transferring the skills. Um, what else? Uh, oh, I didn't do my final project and didn't put my projects on my resume. So, uh, they are semi required and I would highly recommend doing them, but know that if you don't like them, by the end, there are, you can still create more projects and you shouldn't be keeping up on what you're doing. They also offer, uh, like Azure workshops that you can go to. They hold those every couple of. Um, and you have to be able to use that score because all of their, the majority of their communication happens on discord. Um, there's also, if you take full advantage of their discord, their discord channel also has a lot of ability to interact with other alumni, uh, and talk to them. Um, and that can help if you're working on projects or if you're just looking for advice on getting jobs and stuff, a lot of people still go into the discord channel to give tips and advice, um, for leaving anything out, please help. I think that was about everything. Um, you sure? Well, actually, no, I mean, I'm sorry. I I'm sure that I can find more, but, um, I'm just trying to be thorough.

Don Hansen:

No, I think you did a good job with that. I appreciate that extra information. Um, just a question. So when you, um, I guess just clarification, um, how do you define a software engineer? Because usually those terms are interchangeable, but how do you do.

Jacob Rochefort:

So that's the thing I'm newer to that, like, I'm not going to act like I'm an expert. I, uh, I'm not, I'm newer to the space, if you will, to the, to the career field. Um, I just didn't work on much web based applications. So my applications, when I was like, I was hired as a software engineer, I occasionally did something that was react, but most of it was like interacting with databases. Uh, and it was implementing, uh, like for instance, one thing that I did was I, uh, used the, I'm trying to say stuff without giving any details. I, I took stuff from a database and I used it to update all of the profiles for the company, right? Like the companies, uh, Google profiles, um, those are the kinds of programs that I would write and then I would work with, um, and I would deploy as different functions on different cloud networks. Right. Um, instead of like, when I'm in the bootcamp, everything is a website I'm making a react website or I'm making a Java spring boot website, or I'm making. Um, Python with HTML and CSS website, uh, which is fine. That's what the class is for. But, uh, the difference being how much of what percentage of my job is based on, um, web applications versus what is based off software. And that was just what I happen to get hired for. Um, I kind of prefer software engineering, but if anybody's looking for a job anybody's looking for a junior developer for dev or engineering, feel free to hit me

Don Hansen:

up. Um, so just to clarify in the curriculum though, you're still working with backend languages, building APIs, interacting with the database.

Jacob Rochefort:

Yep. Yeah, no, we do both sides. Um, I was just to talk about the difference, I guess, but with my personal experience, just in the job field was, I just didn't do as much front facing stuff. And that was because somebody else on the team handled it. So, uh, and I just did work on those projects for it. Um, I will say that if you're going to do it's self paced and not listen to the, I love the dog. If you're not going to do the. As much interaction with the teacher and the lectures. Uh, sometimes they're, uh, digital programs. Like they can be very thorough because they have an online platform or online platform can be really thrown. It's going to recover a lot of the stuff that's on the lecture. Like the lecture stuff will parallel the stuff that's on the platform, but there will occasionally just be wrong information on the platform or gaps. Um, especially in their older classes. Uh, as I was mentioning earlier, I took the Java and they had not updated it in a while. Um, also I was going to say this cause we talked about admissions and asking them specific questions. I don't know if admissions has any experience with programming. Um, I kind of got the vibe that they didn't, they are just there for recruitment. Um, my recruiter admissions guy also said that I only needed a few, the bites of Ram going into the program. And when I got to Java and spring boot my computer just straight up, wouldn't run. Uh, if I tried to open a spring boot on my, a few gigabytes of Ram computer, so I had to get a whole new computer. Which was not planned for, but, uh, worked out fine. Um, and the teachers are like, yeah, admissions can be, uh, or the recruiters can be interesting. Sometimes was one of the quotes that I got from the, uh, the TA's and teachers there. So,

Don Hansen:

okay. I was going to wrap up with, um, and Jacob also, all of you probably all have YouTube accounts, most likely. So I feel free. I'm sure people might have a few questions in the comments. Feel free to come in, answered questions. If you think of something else, something like that, sometimes students will do that. Cause you're not gonna, you're not going to be able to share every single thing, Jacob. And like, um, and I know there's going to be follow up questions and you'll be like, oh my God, I cannot believe I forgot that. And then start typing it out. So yeah, I'm essentially inviting you to do that in the comment section. All right. Um, so this, when

Jacob Rochefort:

you're yes. Okay. Perfect. Uh,

Don Hansen:

all right, Adrian, can you hear me? Yeah. Sorry about

Adrian Acosta:

that. Uh, I'm

Jacob Rochefort:

on my phone.

Don Hansen:

No, you're completely fine. Um, so essentially I think we're good to wrap it up there. Did I guess, Adrian, did you have anything else to add?

Adrian Acosta:

Um, I guess, uh, I was going when I was wanting to say before, you know, my wifi got off, um, at coding dojo, like I was like, really, like, I think I was too comfortable for it to be called like a bootcamp. So like, I think it was too easy to graduate even though like, yes, I was stressed during it, but, um, if I were to tell anyone that goes to coding dojo, I'd say don't worry so much about the belt exams, the belt exams. They're not too hard, but just focus on getting directs and really focus on your project for project week. Try to try to network with your like other cohort mates. And they do a group project or just focused on it completely like utilize your full time.

Jacob Rochefort:

I like it.

Don Hansen:

That's good advice.

Adrian Acosta:

Yeah. Cause I mean, like for me, at least, like I was stuck with the work and so I can't really do that anymore. Like have a full week just dedicated to a project. So you have to have three of those, I'd say use all three of them wisely.

Don Hansen:

That's good advice. Yeah. You definitely had a concern was where you ended up with your portfolio. So, I mean, I think being extra proactive with this coding boot camp is going to go a long way for each, each person. Um, cool. Anything else to add Julian? And then we'll go ahead and do our outros.

Julian Martinez:

No, nothing else for me. Okay. Yeah.

Jacob Rochefort:

Okay.

Don Hansen:

All right. Cool. Well, I'm good. Uh, liberated on quite a bit, so that's it. I'm very curious. What. It's I, I did the coding dojo review a long time ago, so I don't even know if it's different at this point. I probably got to check it out at some point, but, um, I do feel like this review was slightly different. And also, uh, Jacob, as you pointed out, we had one student that wasn't even from coding dojo. So my, my little blooper podcast episode that I decided to put up, but yeah, let us know what you think of the comments. Let's go ahead and do our routers. Um, Jacob, if people want to reach out to you and anything else you want to shout out, where could they reach you?

Jacob Rochefort:

So I'm at LinkedIn. Uh, if you do like the slash and then just do Jacob dash road for just as you see it spelled here on zoom, uh, that takes you right to me. So you can reach out to me there.

Don Hansen:

All right. Cool. How about you Julian?

Julian Martinez:

Uh, also on LinkedIn, uh, Julian Martinez, full snakes, uh, developer, uh, that can reach out to me as well. Uh, having a project, uh, out there to. Uh, it was a capstone project caught up. It's a swap a book that X, Y, Z feel free to check it out.

Don Hansen:

Okay. How about you, Adrian?

Adrian Acosta:

Uh, yeah, you can find my LinkedIn and I get up on AA eleven.dev. That's where my portfolio site will be, but I just felt like a place holder. So you'll find my LinkedIn and you have right there.

Jacob Rochefort:

Okay.

Don Hansen:

All sounds good. Well, if you have any follow-up questions, feel free to leave it in the comments or even reach out to them directly. Uh, like I said, stick around for a couple minutes, but Jacob Juul and Adrian, thanks so much for coming on.