Oct. 4, 2021

How Patrick FINALLY Got His First Developer Position


After graduating a coding bootcamp, it took Patrick 8 frustrating months to finally get his first developer position. He shared his whole job search journey. We dove into his day to day; job search strategy - what worked and what didn't; his frustrating interview experiences; and what finally helped him stand out from the rest of the applicants to FINALLY get his first developer position. Congrats Patrick! Can you relate to his frustrations?

Host and Guest:
Don Hansen - https://www.linkedin.com/in/donthedeveloper
Patrick Shushereba - https://www.linkedin.com/in/pshushereba

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Transcript
Don Hansen:

Welcome back to another podcast episode where we help aspiring developers get jobs and junior developers grow in this episode, I wanted to share another kind of success story, but more importantly, talk about some of the struggles he went through when he finally did get his first developer position. So, uh, Patrick, you'd been on the podcast before. Um, welcome back. How have you

Patrick Shushereba:

been? I've been well, thank you so much for, for having me back. I'm excited. To talk about everything. Yeah, absolutely.

Don Hansen:

Um, and we had you on the Lambda podcast episode. When did you graduate

Patrick Shushereba:

Lambda? I graduated Lambda at the end of August. I think it was August 29th, 2020,

Don Hansen:

August 29th. Okay. And when did you get the full-time position you have

Patrick Shushereba:

now? I was hired at the beginning of April and then I started like the 19th, I believe of April. So. Eight months or so about eight months. Okay. All right. Sounds good.

Don Hansen:

Well, um, yeah, let's just jump right in. Um, I kind of wanna get a feel for, you know, the, um, the ups and the downs of the job search. Right. So can you kind of take us through a journey with what it was like starting, like right after you graduated and we'll kind of just progress

Patrick Shushereba:

from there. Sure. So, so starting after starting the job search after graduation was kind of brutal. I mean, wait, so you finished the, the boot camp, right? And lemme school was really good about, you know, having everybody finish up and kind of getting you prepared. So I had a, a resume, I had my LinkedIn tailored, um, but it was just a matter of getting the applications done, but it can. It was for me, at least a little bit disorienting because all of a sudden I didn't have school, you know, two days a week. I didn't have, um, projects to work on that were, uh, monitored or, you know, I could get feedback on, it was just kind of sink or swim. It was figure it out and. so I spent a lot of time pumping out applications, you know, just, it almost seemed like I was throwing things out into the board um, and trying my best. But it's, it's hard because it's, you, you know, you're used to that guidance and everything, but there's so much stuff that you need to be doing to be seen and to be heard as a developer. I mean, the lead code problems, the. Interviewing the live interviewing the, the projects, all of the above kind of thing. And it's hard to keep on track with all of that. So I was actually had to be really disciplined with how I broke up my time. I made all kinds of learning plans to say, this is what I'm gonna do today. Uh, here's my goals for the month, things like that. Um, and I put out a lot of applications before I heard. Anything back, and maybe that was just timing, uh, you know, heading into the fall in the winter when hiring slows down and with COVID, it ended up being a long time. I mean, I was pumping out applications 10, you know, 12 a day for a long time and just not getting really any traction. And then after the first of the year, it was almost like a switch flip. And within the first, like two weeks of. This year of 2021, I had probably six or eight points of contact within the first two weeks. It was like, it was like an on thawing almost . And so like for, by points of contact, I mean, either like phone screenings with, uh, representatives from companies or with recruiters. Uh, technical interviews or behavioral interviews. I mean, it really started to open up. And that was when I got a lot of my, my reps out of the way and kind of got comfortable falling down a little bit, getting some feedback, figuring out what I could be doing better or what went wrong and, you know, really working on my elevator pitch and just kind of, um, getting my, you know, my pitch deck together, you know, how am I sell myself? And. Eventually, I ended up getting a, a contract position through Lambda school. They have a, a, a way for potential, um, employers to reach out to Lambda school students. And I got an email out of the blue saying, Hey, we saw your profile through, uh, Lambda school and we'd like to interview you. So I did the, the take home project that they sent me and not long after I was. Hired on a contract basis and that lasted about six weeks or so. And then I interviewed, I also applied for this job through Lamber school for, I interviewed at a place called NEX end. And, uh, that was where I ultimately got my, my full-time job. So they made me an offer at the beginning of April of this year. And I started mid April. Then I've been there for about four months and I absolutely love. Okay.

Don Hansen:

Well, I mean, first of all, congratulations on the new position. That's thank you. Exciting. Um, I get a question. So when you took the contract, cause you described it, it was a, um, um, it seemed like a very, very temporary thing. Uh, did you use an ISA to get into lamb school? Yes. Did that trigger when you took the contract position?

Patrick Shushereba:

No, because for me, the ISA had a qualifying income of, um, $5,000 a month. It's it? Or, sorry, excuse me. It's $50,000 a year. So whatever that breaks down to monthly, like 41, something. So, uh, the contract was never gonna be enough to, to trigger the repayment. So I got lucky in that regard. Um, So yeah, no problems there. Okay. All

Don Hansen:

right. I was just curious. Well, so let's, um, I guess I have a few questions from when you started, you had mentioned that you were applying to a lot of positions before you even heard back. Do you have a number in mind before you got your first

Patrick Shushereba:

response? oh, we was, I don't know. In the two hundreds, maybe. I mean, I, I applied for a lot of jobs. I mean, anything that said JavaScript, I was like, I'm applying, like let them tell me know, cuz a lot of the times what I found is people who posted jobs. They, they either don't. Label it as entry level or they, they it's something. So maybe it defaults to entry level jobs or something or whatever. But if it said Java Des, or I thought, look looking at the job description that I could do the job I applied. Like, I didn't care if it says senior or whatever it was like I'm in. So, uh, it was a lie. It was probably 200 jobs or, or more before getting anything back.

Don Hansen:

What was the first response that you got back?

Patrick Shushereba:

The, I had let's see the first response. There was a company. I think it was called doctor squat. They make like bespoke, like soap, like, like high end soap for, for men. And it's in, I think Santa Monica or so, uh, somewhere out here. And so they, they sent me a test, uh, for, to, for like a JavaScript assessment. And I. Didn't do great. Like, I didn't bomb it entirely, but I knew looking at it afterwards, like this was didn't go well. And, um, I had actually applied this a again to what I was saying. I applied for like a mid-level developer thing cuz that's what, that's what they had sent me. And then, um, the, the gentleman reached out to me, said, Hey, you know, We also have a junior developer role. Would you be interested in that? And then I said, yes. And I never heard anything back from him. So , but that was my first response was that assessment. And so that was like my first like involvement, you know, that was my first like live technical assessment. . Yeah.

Don Hansen:

That's uh, were you, when you went into that assessment, were you confident? Were you nervous? Like, what

Patrick Shushereba:

was it like? I was nervous I was so nervous. Um, you know, you, it's one of those things where you think, you know what you're doing until you have to do it in front of somebody and then that's where all the errors take place. Mm-hmm . And so I'm like, yeah, this is easy. I know JavaScript. I've only been doing this for two years in school and, you know, part-time and full-time in projects and stuff and then said, Hey, build. You know, do something that spits out a string of HTML tags. And I'm just like what like, I forgot everything. Just brain drain yeah. That's

Don Hansen:

usually how it goes. At least it did for me. Um, okay, so you got your first response and, um, you know, Like you said, you kind of learned from that as you started getting those responses and probably facing the challenges you were able to, like once you get that first live interview, it's like, um, it, it's really easy to be nervous during that interview, but you almost like for me, I, I guess I should speak for myself. I almost put that interview on this like really, really scary pedestal with. Fire breathing dragons surrounding it. Like it was this, this obscure thing that just scared me. I'm like, I don't know what to expect. Right. And at least when you get that first technical challenge, you're like, okay, kind of bombed this. Didn't get the position, but I can do this. Right. I know what to study now. And I know what to, um, you know, really reinforce with my knowledge. So once you get that first response, that's great. Um, you had mentioned that you were really. structure disciplined in your day to day, you had like daily goals, weekly goals. That's awesome. Um, what did your day to day look like in trying to, uh, learn like continue to build your skills and find a job?

Patrick Shushereba:

Sure. So I had essentially three things that I was trying to do, so I, as much as I hated it and I avoided it as long as possible, the, the lead code problems, I said, I'm gonna do. Two lead co problems a day. And I tried to get 'em done early in the morning because I hated them and I knew it was gonna take a long time and I wanted to do them while my, my willpower and discipline was at its highest. Like as soon as so soon as I got up, I'm like, I'm doing these lead co problems, knock 'em up. And then I wanted to do a little bit of tutorial work. Uh, so try to reinforce some skills that, uh, I. You know, didn't cover or cover too quickly in school. Um, sometimes it would be little experiments. Like, let me set up a code pen or a code sandbox that did, uh, you know, explained ay weight, or let me figure out, um, how to work with the HTML canvas element and like draw shapes and stuff. You know, little things like that. Um, or it could be. You know, let me learn material UI. Right. Um, and then I spent a little bit of time doing project work because I wanted to be pushing code every single day because I thought that that was super valuable. And just the reflexive, just the habit of being able to do something and contribute no matter how small every day was just, it became like a, a discipline for me. And then on top of that, I was doing the, the 10 to 12 applications. Okay.

Don Hansen:

10 to 12, sorry, 10 to 12 applications

Patrick Shushereba:

per week. Uh, per day, like, okay. I was putting on a lot of applications.

Don Hansen:

Did you submit a cover letter?

Patrick Shushereba:

No. Well, some so, so a lot of them was just spray and pre, just LinkedIn apply. Indeed apply. There were some, if I was on WeWork remotely, you know, I would, might submit a cover letter. Um, I, I tried to cherry pick some jobs that I, that I really wanted. And like, those are the ones I did the calculator for, but, uh, by and large, it didn't. I, it didn't seem like it helped me. So I'm sure they're valuable. Um, they, I would, if I was applying for a job a year from now or two years from now as like a mid-level engineer, um, I might submit a cover letter um, but it didn't help me too much. Uh, in at least in my experience, like I said, uh, during my application process, nobody ever mentioned anything I ever wrote in a submitted cover letter. So it it's hard to say, but I, I didn't do it that much. Okay.

Don Hansen:

All right. So basically companies you really cared about, you put more effort into getting in, um, I guess we'll talk about the, your position a little bit later towards the end of the podcast. So you were submitting a lot of resumes. Um, you were doing this every day. It took you eight months to find a position. Did you keep this up throughout the whole eight months?

Patrick Shushereba:

I, I, I kept applying for jobs almost every day. Um, I did not. I, I tried to do my goal was always 10. So in most days I would hit that. Um, a lot of times, uh, I didn't, a lot of times it was, there's nothing available. I've already applied to all of these jobs. So, um, The goal was always 10. It, it, it varied depending on what was available at the time. Um, the parameters of my search, sometimes I was looking mostly in California where I'm located, but I also started to look at cities like maybe I'll moved to Denver. Maybe I'll, you know, would wanna live in Chicago or whatever. So I started to expand my search a little bit to other cities, and that helped me generate some additional. Opportunities. Um, but it wasn't just pedal to the metal for eight months. No, there was some, there was some lull in that some downtime, um, you know, the holidays, so things come up, but, um, I was pretty disciplined, all things considered.

Don Hansen:

Okay. I think good for you. That's not an easy thing to do for a lot of people. Um, so you had mentioned that you had worked on like little challenges. Did you work on any large complex projects during those eight months?

Patrick Shushereba:

Uh, yes. So what I, I mean, something that I believe is that it's important for, for boot camp grads. And maybe I mentioned this in the last podcast, but I think it's important for boot camp grads to have like a big project that's not done from school. Like just for personal learning. To kind of build an experiment with and, and build off of. So I started working on a project that I wanted to have implement real time chat and video and stuff. And so I, I was working with like socket IO and different things to try to put together things that would differentiate me, um, in the job market that I could point to and go, yeah. Great. I looked, I took all of the things that I learned in Lamber school and that was my foundation that set the floor, but I'm also doing all of this interest. You know, work on things that, you know, I'm interested in that are more, uh, that are valuable, but they're also more common things that you see in an application, right? Like, you know, modern applications have, I don't know, 10 things that everybody takes for granted that they don't teach you in boot camps. You know, nobody tells, nobody tells you how to write a notification system in, you know, the bootcamp. But at least I haven't seen it. I mean, you interview people all the time. Coming up, but like, I, I don't know how that works. So it was like, let me go look and how to pull the server to see for changes and, you know, different things like that. So I wanted to put together something that, um, had a little bit of those features so that you could see. I'm I'm building towards something greater and I'm expanding on the skills that I'm, that I have in a meaningful way, in a controlled way. And it becomes kind of fun after a while, because once you have, you know, kind of the foundation of the project in place, it becomes a lot of fun to just go, okay, I'm gonna add this particular feature. I'm going to add a blog feature. Right. And so it becomes, uh, a lot of fun when you can just add onto an existing project and, and kind of watch it grow. And so I did have one big project.

Don Hansen:

Okay. Do you feel like it was a major talking point in your interview with your current company?

Patrick Shushereba:

Oh yeah, absolutely. Cause I, I could, like I said, I could point people to it. I could say this is what I did here are the challenges that I ran into. And there were challenges. I mean, I , there were times where I just, I would spend six hours trying to figure out something that turned out to be relatively small. And you. You know, you're making progress, but at the same time, it feels like all you're doing is messing up. Like I'm rewriting the whole thing, because I feel like I coded myself into a corner or I did stuff that was, that worked in the time, but I didn't know that it was wrong or not the best way to do things. And so it's like, oh, I could fix that. And you, you only get to that point by messing it up, but then looking at it through experience and coming back and going, oh, that's not right. And so I'm, it's a constant, you know, constantly in flux, but it, it does make keeping. Continuing to work on that does make my, my current job easier. Uh, because it's, you, you know, you're just looking back on what you did, how things work, you have examples O of, you know, how to do a certain subset of things that, you know, translates in unexpected ways to, you know, my current job. So it's helpful.

Don Hansen:

Yeah. I think that makes a lot of sense. So what was your most frustrating experience gripe with the job search?

Patrick Shushereba:

not probably a couple things. There were one, the big one is not hearing anything back. Um, especially, and not even on the initial application stage. Uh, there it's, whenever somebody reached out and said, Hey, we wanna talk to you and like, great. You know, that's perfect. Let's set up a date and I would set up a date and they wouldn't show. I just got ghosted, like wait a minute. And these were like, some was bigger companies, some were startups on angel list, but a lot of times, um, that that was a big deal. I had people that I've interviewed with and they said, great, we're gonna follow up with you for next steps. Never heard back. Or they would give me, I had people give me a challenge that I spent a week on. They never followed up. And then when I emailed them, said, Hey, what, what happened? Nothing. It. It was just gone almost like almost like you would think I made it up. I still have projects on my computer for stuff I spent a week on and it went nowhere. And the other big thing that really frustrated me was people who accepted me for an interview, um, without really reading my resume. And then what happened is I would get into the video call. And I would start talking about my experience and they would go, oh, you, they would stop me and go, wait a minute. You don't have three years of experience go, no, I've just graduated a book. Like it's on my resume. Why don't did you read my resume? And then they, they would go, I'm sorry, we have to be, we we're a startup. We have to be, we gotta nail this higher. Like we can't, we can't hire someone without less than two years experience or three years, whatever. And they would ditch the video. And that happened to me at least three times. Wow. I'm like, what do you, why did you even interview? Like, you know, that's a carelessness on their part too. Like, don't interview me, you know, or if you're going to do that, like give me the opportunity to prove you wrong. You know, they assume that I don't have three years. That doesn't mean I don't have skills so those were the two most, most frustrating things that happened to me, uh, during the whole search. Yeah. Wow. , Don Hansen: I'd be really frustrated. Um, where with most of the jobs that you did find, were you using some sort of job board, uh, you mentioned LinkedIn, or were you just finding tons of job posting sites and just scattering your resume? Uh, I did a handful of things that really worked. Um, LinkedIn was the big one. I know at Lader school, sometimes they tell people not to apply with the, like the LinkedIn easy apply because it's lazy or because it's not monitored by a person or whatever. I did. I was shotgun and applications. I had a number of interviews through that. So I, I don't know that I, I didn't follow that. Obviously. Uh, LinkedIn was a big one. Uh, indeed not so much. Um, angel list was really helpful for me. A lot of startups, smaller companies. Um, I got a handful of good interviews through there. Uh, Uh, I wanted to work remote at least, or this have the possibility to, so WeWork, remotely was a great one for me. And another big one that I used was, uh, Y Combinators work@astartup.com. Uh, all of the YC companies that are looking for people, you know, posted there's a huge like market for. For jobs. And so that was a good one. And then the last thing that I did was just straight like Google queries. And so I would just type like, uh, you know, software developer and then just do like little site colon and then put jobs.lever.com or co or whatever it is, or greenhouse.io, because those applications were really easy to fill out and you could just auto, complete 'em And so I'd have my resume on my desktop and just drag and drop. I could kick out a whole bunch of resumes, but it surfaced a lot of jobs that were remote, uh, that were easy to apply for. And that I was qualified for that I wasn't generating through traditional search. And so that was a towards the end that helped me quite a bit in terms of getting out a large number, number of quality applications.

Don Hansen:

Okay. Where do you think you found. Well, first of all, that's interesting to hear about the LinkedIn easy apply that you actually got responses from that. Um, cuz I that's one thing I agree with with Lambda, um, applied directly in the site. Um, but, and I also had a bad experience. Well not bad experience. I just got no replies from it. So it's interesting hearing, you did have some sec success with it, but what I'm also interested in is where did you find those jobs, those interviews that didn't even read your resume. Where it was like the bad types of interviews. Where did you find

Patrick Shushereba:

those? There were a couple from angel list, uh, and, um, at least one from LinkedIn. that I can remember off the top of my head.

Don Hansen:

Yeah. Angel list is tricky. It's kind of a hit or a miss and you could find a gold mine, but a lot of it is, um, equity. It's,

Patrick Shushereba:

you're some random guy like, like, Hey, uh, work for free, but I'll give you half the company. I'm like, half of nothing is nothing. Like, I don't like I need to be paid. And like, equity's a good thing. If you're in the position where you can afford that or exactly. If I could take a chance and be like, no, I need to be paid like that period. yeah.

Don Hansen:

Well, I mean, you had those standards that you set for yourself, which is awesome because there's some people that don't and they will take, you know, free stuff just to get that experience. And sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do, but, um, kept pushing forward. You finally got your position. So let's talk about your first position. Um, what was the interview process? and don't go into like any specific details to expose like specific technical challenges, but we'll

Patrick Shushereba:

talk around that. Okay. So for the full time role for not for the contract for correct. Full time. So, so for, for N year, there was a, a two step three step process, if you count the phone screen. So I heard from the, the recruiter and, um, said, Hey, we wanna jump on the phone with you. And so, uh, I went set up the phone call and it was just, it was really brief actually. And it, he, he was real flattered with all the Lambda school students. Uh, next student is hired a, a decent amount of, of lamb school students. And so he, he was, it was kind of like, Hey, I know what lamb school does. I know what you're about. Like I get it. Um, we'd love to move you on. And so once I, it was not long to get into the pipeline, so to speak. It was just, are you interested in react? What do you know about this? Would you be interested in like a possible, like node backend position? Absolutely. And so I got into the pipeline and then there were two main, um, interviews, there was the technical challenge. And then there was the behavioral interview. And for me, those were scheduled the following week, but they were Monday Wednesdays. So they weren't too far apart. And the technical interview, I was dreading because I I've had bad technical interviews. I've had okay. Technical interviews but you just never know. And so, um, I got into, into there and I. A little bit relieved where it was a lot of, uh, discussion focus. I mean, there were some coding parts to it, but a lot of it was to assess the, the breadth of your knowledge. So it was, you know, if I go to google.com, what happens on the back end? You go, okay, well, it's sense of request to the DNS server and it gets resolved and, you know, they wanna test your networking knowledge. They wanna test, uh, your problem solving abilities, both in actual, um, coding challenges, but also talking through how you would approach a problem. Or, you know, very. Small scale system design questions. Um, I get the feeling that they probably had a range to, um, how they were going. They were gonna ask questions to try to figure out where in their, uh, engineering hierarchy you would fall. So they could bring you in as a developer one or, you know, senior developer level, something like that. So they could kind of gauge. Your knowledge. Um, and that was the, the broad strokes of the, the technical interview. And then the behavioral interview was like all your behavioral interviews. Um, I mean, it was just, you know, talking about different challenges or how you work with teams. Um, it was refreshing because they asked, they asked you how. You like to work in a team, what kind of people you like to be working with and how you want to be managed? Because Nexi end is like fully scrum, like a hundred percent. And so they run all of their teams in a very, like, just that scrum way where it's a, you know, two week sprint cycles and all the ceremonies and everything. So, so they wanted make sure that you're gonna be okay with that. And they wanna ask, you know, different personality questions so they can assess culture fit. So that was kind of neat as well. Um, that was basically it. I mean, I went from initial phone screening to offer in hand in about three weeks. It was quick, which is nice. Cause there's jobs. I still haven't heard back from that interviewed for, so me too.

Don Hansen:

um, that's really cool. What do you think was like the primary, um, primary thing that you did to really catch their attention?

Patrick Shushereba:

The, so at least in the technical part, the technical part of it, I think it was asking smart follow up questions and showing that you, if I didn't know something to admit that I didn't know something and be, and to say, well, I don't have direct experience doing this, but not failing to answer the question. So I would say, well, I, I don't have any direct experience with X, Y, or Z, but. You know, if I did, here's how I would approach it. And you can still just because you've never done something doesn't mean you can't suggest a potential solution. And so you could still say, well, I I've never actually had to deal with that situation, but here's how I would handle it. And you can. As long as you can think, clearly you can demonstrate that you have like your thought processes, right. And, and they can see, and it says how you make decisions. That goes a long way. And I spoke with my, with my manager after the fact, because both of those interviews were recorded and I thought it's one of those things that was a throwaway thing. Like, oh, we're just recording for quality assurance. Like, they would only look at it if something went wrong. But I found out after the fact that my, my direct supervisor and my team lead, uh, actually did watch all of my interview and he goes, he goes, you're here today because I saw your interview and I really liked the way you think. I like, I like the way that you approach the problems and you, whatever I was that I said or did, he could, as he could see potential, and he could say, this is somebody that I think is a team player that I want to have working for me. And I think that would add value in a very real and direct way he goes. And, you know, you nailed your interview and that's how, that's why you're here is because I li I really liked what I saw. And so that was kind of neat to hear after the fact, because during the interview, and this is what was surprising to me, but they were everybody. Very very kind, which sounds silly, but like, you know, interviews are supposed to be like stoic and not really, you know, tip their hands, so to speak, but on a number of occasions, both during the technical interview and the behavioral, uh, the interview actually stopped and, you know, I got feedback and they were different people, but I got feedback like, man, you're really killing this. Like you're doing a really good job and you don't, you never know in the moment, if they're just saying that if they tell it to everybody, um, and then in the behavior one, it. You know, they ask some questions about, I'm trying to remember what I, it escapes me, but they ask, uh, questions. And then, um, I gave an answer and they go, wow, you sure you haven't like done this before? and so, you know, you get that kind of feedback, which is nice in the moment. It helps, I guess, keep calm, which is what I thought that they were doing, which just. Helping keep you kind of even keeled. So you don't like kind of lose it halfway through the interview, but, um, it turns out there was some, at least some truth to that, at least in my case. So that was kind of refreshing.

Don Hansen:

I liked that I really liked that sounds like it went really well. Obviously you got hired. Um, and I really liked, you know, your philosophy with, if you don't know something, like you said, admit. that's okay. But also, uh, try to answer it. Um, you know, like a lot of these problems that you're gonna be facing as a developer, it's like a lot of developers come up with problems that they don't really understand, but it's okay to try to understand it. Like you might not have, um, had a computer next to you to be able to like do research or something like that. But like you even showing that you're willing to try based on your limited experience. Answer this, this is awesome. Like they, they want that kind of attitude. They want a problem solver. Um, and you'd be surprised, but sometimes you really ha like people take a long time to develop that skill too. And you showed it in the interview. Oh yeah. So, I mean, that was good. Um, okay. So I think I got a good feel of like what your job process was like or job search process and. Your interview process. And again, you know, congrats on the new position. That's always exciting.

Patrick Shushereba:

Um, thank you. It's such a relief. once you get the first one, it it's like it validates all the work that I've done or in that people have done. In the best way, like it just like, this was all worth it. And then you get in sometimes, you know, when you buy something expensive and it's never what you think it's gonna be like, this is the exact opposite. Like I, I got the job and it was everything I wanted it to be it was so good.

Don Hansen:

That's awesome. I mean, seriously. So what if we had to give like one final piece of advice for aspiring developers after you've gone through all of that, what would it be?

Patrick Shushereba:

Uh, oh, so much advice. Um, if you had to pick one, if I had to pick one to be con I would pick be consistent in your learning. Uh there's. You never know what you pick up, that's going to, to help you. Um, I've was in interviews where, you know, I had just happened to, to pick up something obscure, like coding wise. And so somebody said a keyword and I immediately knew what that was just because I happened to read an article that hacker or because, you know, uh, something came up and I, I happen to have this really obscure. Error message. Uh, when I was debugging something and, oh, I know exactly what that problem is because I ran into that and I document all my problems. So when I run into an error, you know, I spend six hours fixing it. I'm like, I'm not gonna spend six hours again. So I write it down and that, and then I that's the first place I search is my own notes, you know? So, so never stop learning because you never know when it's going to. To pay off. Um, but then also that's just part of the job. So , you have to, you have to kinda love the, the process. You have to love the discipline and everything that comes with it in terms of like constantly learning and stuff. And so the early. The earlier that you build that habit the better. And I found that for me, you know, I got the job in my entire learning roadmap reset. So all the stuff that I wanted to learn got put on the back burner, because there are things that I never even would've thought to cover that are now more important that got moved up in my learning, you know, roadmap, because it's going to like learning that stuff will help me, uh, more in my day to day. So it it's interesting how, how the perspective shifts and how quickly it happens. So. Never stop learning.

Don Hansen:

okay. I think that's good advice. Well, Patrick, I appreciate you sharing this with us. I really do. Um, it's time for our outros. If people wanted to reach out to you, where could they reach you?

Patrick Shushereba:

Oh, good question. Uh, I'm on LinkedIn. It's Patrick. Uh, she Reba, so I, I think you'll link that in probably the notes or something. Um, I think I'm on GitHub. P SBA, um, Twitter, I think it's CPP Patrick for Cal poly Pomona. Even though that undergrad degree didn't do anything for me. um, and those are, those are the big ones. I don't, I'm not a, a big person on Twitter. Like I don't, I don't really do anything, but, but I'm there. So LinkedIn or GitHub are the best ones. Okay,

Don Hansen:

that sounds good. Well, uh, stick around for a couple minutes, but again, Patrick, thanks so much for coming out and sharing. I think this is gonna be really valuable for people. See

Patrick Shushereba:

now. Great. Thank you so much. Everything we believe we just see, just need to.