May 23, 2022

Mobile Developer To Entrepreneur | Google Expert, Courses, and Content Creation


I know that many of you would love to work for yourself one day so I invited on an entrepreneur to share some advice. Little did I know he would have so much to share! He started out with a coding bootcamp; became a mobile developer; and then pursued a few different ventures on his own to try and build up sustainable revenue and work for himself. If you have any aspirations to build revenue on your own, take some time and listen to his journey. There are a lot of gold nuggets of advice in this one.

Haris Samingan (guest):
Twitter - https://twitter.com/TheHappyHaris
Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/c/LearnFlutterCode
Linkedin - https://www.linkedin.com/in/haris-samingan-7889b9140

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Transcript

Don Hansen:

I'm going to go. Are you ready? Yes, I

Haris Samingan:

am. Let's go.

Don Hansen:

Awesome. All right. Welcome back to another web development, live broad lope, gonna restart that. Welcome back to another web development podcast episode, where we help aspiring developers get jobs and junior developers grow. In this episode, I invited on Harris to talk about, um, essentially why he quit his mobile developer position that he got after our coding bootcamp and became an entrepreneur. So we're going to dive into that. Um, Harris, thanks so much for.

Haris Samingan:

Thank you for having me.

Don Hansen:

I love it. Um, cool. So let's do a quick intro. Who are you?

Haris Samingan:

Hi, my name is Harris coming on. You can call me Harris. Uh, I used to be a mobile developer and I graduated from a coding bootcamp. And initially I was a psychology student and I jumped into the coding bootcamp. Cause that's where the money is. Yeah, honestly, that's where the money is. And right now I actually teach. Yeah. So I do freelance, uh, to teach coding at the same time. I also have a business that teaches coding and then hopefully in the future, I can open up a coding bootcamp. So it's a full circle, you know, they can't think

Don Hansen:

I love it really interesting. Well, maybe one day, uh, I don't know if you, how much detail you got about my channel, but we do review tons of coding bootcamp series. So maybe one day we can review your.

Haris Samingan:

Yes, please do. Please do. I will love you to pass. I chose you because I, I, I honor honesty.

Don Hansen:

Yes. Well, I appreciate that. I wish more coding bootcamp staff had your mentality. I think it would help grow their programs, but we're going to focus on you today. Um, so let's dive into it. You were at a coding bootcamp. Um, and you, did you even have the goal of becoming a mobile developer or were you just like, I'm going to code them? Whatever.

Haris Samingan:

Yes, I did have the initial goal to be a mobile developer. So the story was that when I joined is a coding boot camp in Singapore, it's called alpha camp. Uh, now they're, they're not, uh, available now because I think the pivot to something else. So, uh, I really wanted to create a mobile applications when I was, uh, looking into this coding bootcamp. So when I applied to it and then I received a call from. And then you say thank you for, for registering your interests. I see that you wanted to become a mobile application, a mobile app develop. Because you joined the iOS, uh, boot cam, right then, uh, the person said that, oh, uh, sorry to say, but there isn't a lot of people joining the mobile app costs. So why not just, uh, pursued a web development path? Ah, most, uh, and then he tried to like, uh, but most of the time developer developers actually started with a web development. Then I don't know about that. I said, okay, sure, no problem. I just went into what there, and then that's how I got to. Um, my, my coding, I would say POS. Yeah.

Don Hansen:

Okay. So you, you became a web developer right after the coding bootcamp. Yep. And then how did you get into mobile device?

Haris Samingan:

Okay. So it didn't really become a web developers after the, the, the book cam, uh, as a, uh, to the web development costs. Right. Uh, it taught me Ruby and rails, and then I was like, okay, why not? I continue with web development. So I was looking for internships. Uh, I don't, I didn't really care about what type of internships. I just want to have an internship in any kind of like, company so that I can build my resume. Right. So, In the end. Um, I managed to get an internship from my friend. Uh, she was working at a education tech company, meaning that, uh, she teach, uh, she's in a company where he teaches tech. So then I was like, why not just go for it? Any, any internship opportunity will help. And then after that, uh, I started, uh, in that, uh, internship, I thought I would do some sort of web development before. I graduated from where development. Right. But in the end I didn't do a lot of web development, but I actually teach coding. It was the start of me teaching coding back then. So I was like, okay, maybe then I explored during that internship. So I was exploring a bit more on like data science, AI, and then also mobile app, uh, application. And then, uh, I had. One experience where my intern, uh, colleague. Younger than me because this, uh, this company, this education tech company, right. They hire a lot of, um, 16 to 17 year olds, uh, interns, uh, legal in Singapore. Uh, most of them are brilliant developers because they started developing when they were younger. So like I learned from them more than they earn from me. So, so, uh, and then one of them was a iOS developer. Uh, and then he said, Harris eyes. I saw this framework that Google is building some mobile app freeways, cough, flatter. Now say, okay. Uh, sure. Let us, uh, let me, uh, let me get to know about mobile. Not that they show me the website and then I got inspired to like, oh my God, back then. It was. I think what four years ago. So 20 18, 20 17, a flatter was like a nother project that Google tried to create and see whether it works or not. So for me, I just like took the risk and then I just went, like, I became so motivated that like I read through the documentation, I just try my own projects. And then like, I also. Uh, to see whether there are courses out there that teach us flatter. So remember in UME, there were only two courses. So one was I think by, uh, I forgot what's the name, but she's like a Asian lady she's very popular and you dummy. I forgot what's the name. And then the other one was another person who was teaching, uh, flatter. So I took the latter one. And then after that, uh, Uh, I really was motivated, uh, to become a flatter developer. I really, really like after the intern working hours, I'll go to the library. I will still continue coding in accounting. So it really got me motivated for some weird reason. Yeah. If you were to know that, uh, new frameworks when they are created, right? Their documentations are not as good as like maybe those who are already, uh, out in the industry for many, many years. So I was still figuring out what the hell they're talking about because they have a lot of joggers that they use, like, uh, stream builders or. Containers and like how the layouts are being built in flatter and whatnot. So it was, uh, it was a difficult time for me to understand a lot things, but eventually, um, I was lucky enough to get an opportunity in, in being a flatter developer when the framework was still in beta, which I think I was like really, really grateful because how I got my first life flatter experience, wasn't in the. Tech the, uh, in the education tech company, but it was in through LinkedIn. So back then 9 20 18 at 10 70. I don't think LinkedIn was very, very popular, not as popular as right now, I would say then, um, I updated my profile, uh, to sit hours exploring Alexa. So Alexa is like, uh, Amazon, uh, like a framework for you to do a build like a recorded, uh, The the, the dialogue flow kind of thing. So you can create your own line because I think it was pretty cool. You can see something at any, you can do a lot of interesting stuff. And then I also put in floods as well. So then, um, this, this, this person, uh, message to be on LinkedIn saying that, Hey, I see that you have updated your profile on flatter and then say, And then he said, why don't we meet for coffee? And he was the founder. He is still the founder of the startup. And then after that, we talk a bit about flatter and then, uh, that's how I got my first flatter internship. And eventually it became my full-time job as a flatter developer. Yeah. So I know I haven't been to like so many, it's been a lot by, yes. I was super lucky that I got a job from LinkedIn, you know, in a sense. Yeah.

Don Hansen:

Yeah, absolutely. And especially back then, So, um, flutter, I'm not super familiar with it. It's kind of like a multi-platform tool to be able to build stuff right.

Haris Samingan:

It used to be like a mobile only, but then since it picked up traction and they somehow saw the underlying technology on how flatter is being used in other platforms, then they say, okay, why don't we invest more effort into building not only the mobile platform, but also like windows, Mac, uh, and wireless Linux. So you can build all these applications, desktop applications using flatbed.

Don Hansen:

Okay. Okay. So you have your flutter position. Was that like a salary paid position? Yes. Okay. And you decided just screw it don't want that position anymore. And then you took it to something else.

Haris Samingan:

Yeah. So I worked as a flatter developer for a year and four months. It's I think it's very short for like a developer experience, I would say. Uh, but yeah. Um, after working in that startup, um, I was like, um, also exposed to like entrepreneurship because the startup founders are pretty. Very young, but they are relatively young in the game of like, uh, being an entrepreneur and the, uh, uh, ND try to be like a tech company, but they sell. Okay. So this startup, uh, that I was working for, they're a feminine tech company, but they sell hip has for menstrual pain. And then my job there was to create the menstrual, uh, tracker. So, uh, females actually check their menstrual cycle so they can predict in the future if they want to do any plans pertaining during their periods. So they can do that. So I built that application flatter. Yeah. So that was very interesting. I learned a little bit more on the, uh, on the female side of things and, uh, but yeah, um, I really. I was really very invested in flatter. And then after a while, I was like, I also had that inkling of like, I wanted to do my own. Because I feel that, uh, even where wherever I work, uh, I always had ideas that I want to implement. So that's where I feel that sometimes when I were to give an idea of maybe not related to, I would say, uh, to engineering, for example, maybe some sort of marketing, right. And then I will I say are either why not? We do this to my previous study. And then after that, uh, I think we didn't even carry or execute any of the ideas that I tried to pursue. Maybe I wasn't convincing enough. I don't know, but I feel that, um, I have like a potential and a drive for me to like, you know, really execute the ideas that have, and then most of the time. Whether I'm in, uh, as a software developer or when I was working part-time right. Most of these ideas were just SWAT. The dye was in nod and I was really frustrated. So then I say,

Don Hansen:

yeah, I want to relate to this. Um, because you know, obviously I'm doing my own thing right now as well. And I remember like going through three different startups and I remember even with one of the startups, so first. Pretty open, um, to my ideas. And even like, I, I felt like I had more conversations with, you know, marketing, UX design, and I felt like those departments actually want to hear my thoughts. Cause I have constant ideas, constant ideas, and I want to talk through them and I thought they were pretty good. You know, some of them, like you said, I might not have sold them well enough, but you know, It, it felt like I was kind of listened to, but there were other startups that I worked at were like, literally told it's not your job done. What are you doing? Focused on software engineering focused on. And like, that was one of the most frustrating things ever. You don't work at a startup to just like. Kind of just be boxed in and like be told, like your ideas don't matter, like startups about like kind of integrating different departments and hearing different ideas. And it should be a little bit more of an open culture to hear in that kind of stuff. So I know like when I heard that I was frustrated and that kind of like eventually drove me. Yeah.

Haris Samingan:

Yes. I totally agree. And I totally understand. And Sally, like, uh, this kind of, uh, companies, I think they, uh, like they have the traditional mindset of like, okay, I hire you for this job. You do this job. You don't do anything else. Your ideas, my, uh, yeah, sure. Yeah, we hear it by, let's leave it to the people, you know? But a startup is a startup, you know, it's like, I mean, the main idea of startup is to grow, right. And sometimes the craziest ideas are the one that mix like a huge improvement too, because sometimes you're so boxed into your own bubble or, uh, experience. You might not think of like, Thinks outside the box. Yeah. So, but I mean, it's fine. That's why this kind of experience led us to this kind of a journey right. Where we create our jobs and it's like, let's, let's go and do our own thing and see how, how it works. So that's why they did. Yeah. So I created my job and then I sat there my own entrepreneurial journey, and I had no idea what I wanted to do, but I know I wanted to choose something on my own. I can listen most entrepreneurs or anyone who started on their own, uh, are always figuring out what they want to do. Yeah. So I was, yeah, I was a.

Don Hansen:

Well, that that's really tough too, because like, it almost felt like, I mean, you and I were kind of driven out of that company to do our own thing. And then we got a search cause we know we have tons of ideas we want to create. Um, actually I guess I'm going to pick your brain a bit. Like what, um, what was your thought process? What were some of the ideas that you kind of just tossed and why did you end up with what you ended up.

Haris Samingan:

Right. So the first idea that I had was I wanted to create, uh, or a math question generator for tuition centers. Right. So, uh, I didn't know why I did that by. Um, I guess it was more towards helping tuition centers on like creating math questions because it's very easy to automate. And like, I think it was a good idea then, uh, I managed to get my first client. He was my friend and he owns a tuition center. And then after I realized doing the MVP and prototype for him, right. I realized like, I don't think I will be motivated in doing this. So I was like, okay. I told my friends, okay. Uh, I don't think I want to continue with this. And then, and he understands because he himself is also an entrepreneur. So it's like, I, I totally understand. And then, uh, and then I scratched that idea. I give back or them the money that he put in. And then, uh, the next part is, I think I created like a, have you heard of link tree? Yeah. So I wanted to be a competitor of link tree because it was very new back then. So I was like, why not take some market share of it? I tried it for a few months and it didn't work out. And then I was like, okay, maybe something else. Then the next thing is like, since I was a flatter developer, Uh, flatter videos or tech videos. Right? So the first videos that I created on my YouTube channel was just all about, uh, experimenting on like, uh, tutorials. So tech, tech tutorials, and then, uh, one, he went. The hit was just a simple link tree clone using flatter or flatter web. Right. And then it got kind of popular. I got a thousand views and I was like, oh my God, that's the first video that got a thousand views on my video channel. Should I, you know, uh, should I invest my time on doing this a flatter video tutorials? So I continue it and then I, I guess the attraction got a little bit better. And then, and that's what I found. I said, oh, why not? I actually create flatter tutorials and videos. And then maybe build a business are flatter because Flato was gaining traction. Uh, and then like, yeah, why not? Uh, uh, right on the wave of it. And that was my whole business, uh, for. Uh, around two years. Yeah. And then, uh, yeah, it was quite challenging. Uh, I mean, running a business, running a building, building a business, uh, trying to grab as much revenue as you can. So my business model was create YouTube videos, video tutorials, and then after that create a paid course on Udemy. And then after that, just like, you know, do all of that.

Don Hansen:

Uh, how did the paid course.

Haris Samingan:

Uh, the pit cause was not as it wasn't it, it was okay. It wasn't as much as I wanted it to be. So like, uh, the PE courses, I think, uh, my highest month, uh, revenue I can share, uh, is maybe 400 USD per. Okay. Yeah. So that was like, I think my highest. And then I think it was also during the black Friday sale. Okay. Maybe not 500, maybe 500. Yeah. I know it didn't reach to a thousand USD per month because that was my goal for you to me. And then I realized that, uh, two years ago, flatter was very popular to the point that if you were to type flatter in UDA mean there were many other. Uh, people are, I don't call them competitors because I was, I was like, you'd be a cause and you sped off at them. Okay. But yeah, there were a lot of people building flatter courses back then as well. So, um, I, I guess it was kind of successful, but not to the goal that I wanted. Yeah. I was like, I, I, and I was an okay. And nothing about entrepreneurship that not many people will say is that you need capital no matter what you do, you need capital. So if you don't have money, then you probably ask your parents for money, which I did. Uh, and, and I also use my savings as well. So the most stressful part about entrepreneurship is that my savings was dwindling down and I was really stressful about money. Right. So I saw your post on, on YouTube. And then that's what I said, like when I'm putting you on an ELA and it was really, really stressful, so about money because. People are so used to become employees. They have recurring income. So they don't really worry about money that much, but for a person who is in the business, right. Money is what they always think on how to survive. Because every month you need some salary recurring revenue, if not, you, you cannot survive. Yeah. So that was really stressful for me, uh, at the last, uh, two years of that, the first, uh, the first. And a half, it was okay because I had enough like, uh, savings that I have to burn through to experiment to really grow my YouTube channel, my courses and all of that. But that was not enough for me to live sustainably live because I was getting more stressed for the money. Yeah. Yeah.

Don Hansen:

I feel like, I always wonder if certain ideas would have. Ben more successful if money didn't light such a huge fire under my butt. And I feel like, yeah, it's, it's just rough. Um, well let me ask you this. I, you know, only share what you're comfortable with, but where you. I guess. Okay. So you essentially started trying to create courses, right? You went to you to me. I hear you to me. So this is my opinion, based on other things that I've heard, um, you to me generally is one of the worst ways to go and build revenue based on your course, a lot of different content, creators and entrepreneurs have recommended. Just build your own course, put it on like teachable or your own website, anything like that. Um, so I guess. How much, how much revenue. So were you just making money off of you to me? Or did you have other revenue sources? I'm curious, like what your total revenue coming in around that point was.

Haris Samingan:

Right. So I did have other sources of revenue, which is YouTube itself. So YouTube has their own way of giving money back to the creators. Right. So it's true ad revenue. So I think for tech content, it is actually. Not bad, uh, compared to lifestyle content from what I've researched so far, because tech is where a lot of developers, they have high, uh, disposable income, so they can, um, sell you advertisers to sell you things related to coding and tech. And that's where like people actually will buy and stuff. So, uh, a YouTube ad is one of them. Then another one was a one-on-one. Um, mentoring or tutoring flatter. So I did that for a while for, uh, for someone. So I was, uh, charging like 60 USD per hour. Uh, some might say it's too high. Some might say it's too. So for me, I think there was a comfortable rate that I'm able to share, but I later learned that just, just charge as much as possible until, until someone don't don't don't do it. I don't need your services. I would say, uh, later I can share with you on like how to do like this allied pricing and whatnot. But yeah, I was doing that for, for 1%. And then at the same time, uh, due to my YouTube channel, I also. Um, people asking me to do the projects and whatnot. So, um, yeah, so I got some, uh, I did some like freelance work as well and all of that, uh, from the YouTube channel, like if they are interested, they probably go to my YouTube channel and then they will see that there is like a business email that they can, uh, contact me to. And then that's where I see people, uh, uh, MES, uh, email me as well. Um, and yeah, so that is the trip. Primary source. And I did actually teachable. So I did a host, a teachable, uh, link, uh, or account to, to host my own courses. And that feels like miserably because like, why realize from teachable is that, uh, They be, uh, it's just a platform, uh, for you to host your cost. Right? But you, Demi, why it's better, I would say is because if you don't have an audience, then you, the meal is the best way because you to me has a consistent monthly active users or people who visit the website. So actually it is more for me. From a business standpoint, it's more reliable for me to rely on you, to me rather than teachable, because teachable, you always have to sell your courses. And if you are, if you're amazing in like your content creation, where you have hundreds of thousands of views for every video, then you don't have to, you know, always shout out your courses. But for the rest, uh, I believe from my experience, if you want to really build your own courses, Uh, to not give you the me so much of your revenue cut, right. Then you always have to put your links on your YouTube description, or you have to probably promote like, uh, like. I think Clemmon, uh, he's. He, he really is in front of my money. So every video he'll say, go to algo, excellent.com with my promo code, whatever I, so for him it works because it's like a running joke, but he knows that by promoting or doing that for every video, right. He will always get customers. And then after that, he also. Like people saying that, uh, I mean, word of mouth through LinkedIn, that's where people post their certificate saying that, oh, I finished this. So for me, I, I don't have a debt, uh, kind of like, um, way of, I don't like to sell stuff online on my YouTube channel as well. I really like do that in all my YouTube channel because there's not a whole point of me creating a YouTube channel for me. It's just, I want to create a very good tutorial so that, uh, people like. All of my teaching. And then they would probably go to like, uh, UDB or whatever website to buy my courses. I don't like to promote every time, but I don't know. We'll see. Maybe I, I suck at marketing. I don't know. But yeah, so that's, that's, uh, that's hard. That's my different sources of revenue, which is like mini honestly, mini is you to me. Cause it's very reliable. Then after that it will be YouTube ads. So EDB ads, I, and maybe. Around a hundred USD per month. And then after that, uh, the third one will be how many views per month

Don Hansen:

for, oh, for YouTube, uh, to get the a hundred dollars a month. How many views did you have per month on your YouTube? I'm

Haris Samingan:

not too sure. Maybe 10,000 per month. I'm not sure. Okay. Okay. I remember. Okay. So YouTube don't pay you unless you have $250 in your ads account for those who don't know. So it's like, you need to hit 250 so that they can pay you. So, like, I don't know what a, you are. I would say Google because, uh, to get the ad revenue, it's not from YouTube is from the. Uh, Google ads, uh, kind of a section there. Yeah. So it's a lot of things that no lofty, but think about when they create YouTube, but if you want money, you have to like create an ads account and whatnot. Anyway. So, so, uh, yeah, uh, for me, a thousand views, I get I'll get a dollar. Is it? I'm not sure. A dollar, 4,000 views if I'm not wrong. Yeah. So maybe

Don Hansen:

so was, was that your CPM or. You don't have to share

Haris Samingan:

no idea. Uh, yeah, I do. I mean, maybe I a prepare?

Don Hansen:

No, I mean, I I'm just picking your brain right now because this is what I'm doing. So I'm just curious. So essentially it sounds like you, to me was your main source of revenue and then you had supplemental past that. Um, I guess my main question is, do you, it almost sounds like that wasn't really hitting your revenue goals or paying the bills, right? Cause you moved on from. Yep. Okay. So what did you move on

Haris Samingan:

to? Oh, right now? Um, um, I was initially when I quit my job, uh, I really wanted to do something to do with education, but I didn't know what was it? So I had this like, like stupid goals that maybe I should open up a tech school, like a physical. Tech school or like a, some sort of university where, you know, you graduate and you're able to get a job, that kind of thing. So, oh, it sounds like a coding boot camp now. Right. So, um, then I really like was thinking, because I was really stressful about money, uh, uh, during running my own business. Right. Then luckily my mentor from the previous, uh, Education tech company that I interned for, he asked me Harris, uh, are you available? Uh, because we need like tech instructor. Uh, because we have this school, they were teaching and we need a lot of tech instructors or people to teach coding and then say, oh my God, you saved me at a right time when I'm, when I'm, when I was so stressful about money. And then after that, I, then when I went and help, uh, to, to do that, right, I was like, oh my God, I should have freelancers. Instructor, because from the years of doing a YouTube tutorials, like I kind of gain, uh, the skills as a, a tech instructor or a person who teach coding. And then, uh, then I was like, okay, why not? I continue, uh, doing the YouTube thing, uh, while doing freelance teaching coding. So. That's what I'm doing right now. So, which is two freelancer teaching coding and the education tech company as a freelancer because, uh, the, the pay is sustainable enough for me to leave a living at the same time and be able to do my, my, my business. So then I was also questioning myself, am I going to do flatter for the rest of my life? And then hours, like maybe not. Right. I know. I love flatter. I've been through flatter since the beta days. And I, I was, I was in the community talking to other flood developers and then I was also selected to be this thing called Google developer expert. I don't work for Google. Uh, it's just a voluntary role, uh, is basically like a content creator that is unpaid by Google, but the perks are in Cena. So that means like some pucks is as a Google developer expert developer expert. You're able to go overseas to talk about flatter for free. So they pay your flight, they pay for accommodation. And then, uh, Google IO, if you are like a very good Google developer expert are very into the community. Very active, right. Fly you to Google IO or any like, uh, events overseas for free and your economy accommodation is also paid for. So there was like, cool. But the thing is I was a Google developer expert during the COVID period. So as you know, I didn't have the books that I was not saying promise I did I researched on. Yeah. So then I was like, uh, and, and also at the same time, I wouldn't say a Google developer expert is. It's a good thing. If I believe as a person with a full-time job, because that's where you can like, you know, share your experience. And most of the time, people who ask you to be, uh, who fall for talks are people from universities. So students will look up to you and you, you can share your experience. And then people also from other companies, Like get to know you as well, and then maybe you can talk for them as well. So I think that's pretty cool if you are really into the technology that you are an expert in, but it doesn't pay the bills. So at the same time I was a kid to be a Google developer expert. And then I

Don Hansen:

realized that, okay, here, I've got a couple of questions about Google developer expert. Um, can you gain an audience from doing.

Haris Samingan:

Oh, you need an audience before you need to be a cooker.

Don Hansen:

Yeah. Gotcha. Okay. And you had mentioned like, um, uh, was. Sorry. I was at college campuses was at high schools that would try to get you

Haris Samingan:

to, yeah. So, um, in a university, sorry, universities, meaning. Yeah. Um, so they have this, uh, group that is called, like Google student club or Google developers, student club, GDS E so universities. We'll have this kind of some sort of club to promote Google technologies. Right. So, uh, they will, uh, then have the. Lisa Google developer experts that's in your area or in your region. So for me, because I'm in Singapore, right? Uh, I'm in the region of Southeast Asia. So, uh, universities from Indonesia, universities from Malaysia, or actually like, uh, uh, messaged actually, Hey Harris, we are from this university, which you and we are doing, uh, this event. So, uh, which you might do like a little workshop on flatus. You know, uh, the students are able to, you know, do these things that's I sure. And yeah, I mean, it's great because you get to expose these students to flatter and at the same time, you also get to know, they will know you as a flat up as you know, that kind of thing. So your branding is there as well, which is great. But, uh, for me, uh, I mean money is money is the byline business. So it's like, I don't see the returns. I know it's a long-term game. If you want to do that, I understand that point of view. But at the same time short term, I was in sustaining from doing talks for free.

Don Hansen:

Well, I guess my question is, so that talks didn't really bring you much of an audience.

Haris Samingan:

Um, it, that it, in terms of audience, it does. For certain events or because it's an online van, right. So you can see the numbers are usually a pretty high, high, I'm not talking about thousands. I'm talking about maybe hundreds of students or hundreds of people in like events. Right. So that was okay for. And then some people will go to my YouTube channel and check it out and whatnot. So increases in terms of like the audience generally in my own life, I guess, social media space or my YouTube channel. But at the same time, uh, I don't see like a spike in like revenue sales from my courses. So, uh, by, by generally you don't think of. When you do talks because I did talk for the reason of flatter to spread the word and not, but at the same time, like, uh, yeah, it just doesn't give me the best ROI for, because I still have to, uh, take time to prepare the slides as well. It's not a good air, so, ah, no, no, I don't do freehand presentation. Yeah. I have to like, you know, do so like why not do the same thing, but then. Uh, being, uh, being paid for it. So that form of like education, right. Uh, there's being paid is now, uh, being used as a, as a freelance skill. So now I am getting Pitt, uh, teaching and now I don't teach a flatter that often because in Singapore that there's not very, very popular.

Don Hansen:

Okay. What do you teach now?

Haris Samingan:

So right now I teach like a lot of technologies. Uh, so, uh, right now, uh, my main sauce is I'm teaching people who are transitioning, uh, Korea. So, uh, people like, uh, like a bootcamp. So in Singapore we have this program where it's, uh, where people, uh, who, because during COVID, uh, the, most of them might not have jobs. So Singapore actually has a program that gives you a monthly income. Yeah. So they are being paid like a 2.2 K per month to be being paid, to learn, uh, So that they can transition to a job. Yes, Singapore, we are very, um, yeah. Yeah. So, so I'm the instructor for that. So I teach, um, for this course I teach, uh, mobile development and web development. So web development is Laravel, uh, MVP, mobile development is react native. Yeah.

Don Hansen:

Where do you want to take this?

Haris Samingan:

So for this, because it's a fee lands, um, interest, I'll take this. What do you mean by that?

Don Hansen:

So I guess, you know, it, it feels like you still are really leaning at leaning on entrepreneurship. Where do you want the delete to, um, do you want to start your own coding bootcamp? Uh, do you want to be a content creator? Of course.

Haris Samingan:

Right. So, um, right now I'm also running. So I, the, the, the YouTube channel, the flatter business, I actually closed it down already. So that that's something that I, I said that I'm not going to do flat anymore. And then I transitioned because I realized. I guess I found my purpose or it might, it sounds cheesy, but like my purpose is I think the education can solve a lot for the world problem. So like my, my, my life goal is to actually open up a school, like a university or whatnot so that I can teach things that makes, uh, humans better. I mean in terms of education, in terms of life, skill and whatnot. So, uh, that's life goal, right? So now is that I've, uh, opened up another business to teach coding. So I partner with someone who has a. Uh, he who has, uh, his own tuition centers. So then basically like using the tuition centers, um, students, um, I'm able to get leads or students to hop onto the coding side of things. So they will also be my students for. Um, for me to teach coding. So that's like the current state of things, which is what I'm doing right now. Then in terms of where I want to take it is that I am planning to create my own coding bootcamp. And then, uh, that's why I found out your channel because I was really, really looking into what are the like good things about certain boot camps and what is not, uh, what are some things that set then students are not. Not that they don't really like about the bootcamp. So I really learn a lot from you to channel and thanks really because they really helped me on what, uh, something that's very useful for the students and some things that are not. So, uh, that's where I'm able to. Uh, get what I wanted to create, but, uh, I haven't, uh, I haven't really, uh, created a curriculum yet because right now I learn is that, um, what's very important for business is money, right from my field venture. So. Uh, right now, his motto it's marketing. So how I'm doing it right now, it's true. Tik TOK, because tick-tock is the easiest to gain a lot of views for very little effort. What I mean by that? I think, you know, when you edit videos for like 10 minute videos, it takes you maybe one day. For me personally, when I create a YouTube tutorial, it will take me one day to create one view. But if I were to take, take talk, right, I'm able to create cheap videos in like one day, which is insane. Second is that because they talk is still kind of new and its vitality algorithm is very, it's stupid. Meaning that your video that can be one minute or less can get so much views in YouTube. So hard to get like 10,000 views. You know, you probably know it's so hard because. Yeah, like YouTube algorithm changed and, um, yes, the, the, the audience is big, but at the same time, it's also hard for you to grab the attention of people. So then that's where I realized, like, why not just ride the wave of the current content creation game, which is create shots or YouTube shots or short form videos. So that's where I see a lot of success. So I create a short form videos, content creation in forms, our short form videos on Tik TOK on YouTube and also on, uh, one more Instagram, Instagram. Yeah. And then all of these are basically the top of the funnel. So you're marketing your awareness channel, right? And then you filter down to the next one, which is to know whether they are interested in you. That's what I did for my courses. So another tip for those who want to pursue entrepreneurship, uh, always, always find your audience first. Okay. If you don't know, just find an audience, you know, like for, for Don, your audience is very. It is people who are interested to become developers and from bootcamp, very clear for me. It's uh, because I'm opening up for coding. Boot camps is, uh, we call this mid Korea people. So people who are 30 to 40 years old, who don't like their job and want something new and better. Then they go to like my upcoming bootcamp and then you don't have to sell anything. You can just say re register your interest. That's what I did for my previous, uh, uh, coding courses on Udemy or even teachable. I don't, I will say, oh, upcoming register your interest for the upcoming. Cause, uh, for example, uh, intro to. So I, uh, and then that's where, you know, that your idea is something that people are willing to, uh, people are interested in and willing to pay for, if you were to put a price in your landing page, for example. So that's what I'm doing right now. So I'm creating a lot of content on this three channels in short form videos, because that's where all of these. Uh, companies are actually pushing their attention too. So on Instagram, they push a lot on your, they call it reels, but it's just short form, but eco video, YouTube is the same. They also will try to push as much, uh, on your YouTube shots and on Tik TOK is the only form that people do so they will just push as much. Yeah. So that's a, that's what I'm doing right now to, to create awareness, content creation, and then, uh, the next, uh, or we call this CTA or. He calls to action. Is it click to action. Call, call, call to action. Call. Oh yeah. Call to action. Sorry. Action. Is the,

Don Hansen:

is the sorry? What was he abbreviation again?

Haris Samingan:

CTA. Yes.

Don Hansen:

I think, I feel like I'm being thrown off now.

Haris Samingan:

Yeah, it's called the exchange. Should we call it the action? So people know about you or how is the developer pastor? Don is the bootcampers and so it's like, oh, it'd be, be interested on like what you do because people are interested in when you give value, when you do a lot of like things. So they will go to your website. So, uh, all of these, uh, platforms have probably have a link for them to go. YouTube is a bit hard because, um, they don't want you to promote your links. So they probably promote your YouTube channel in state. Yeah. But for tick-tock they will go to your profile. And then that's where you can put your link, uh, for your Instagram is the same. You'll go to your profile. They go to your link and that's why they were like, oh, okay. So Harris, for example, what I'm being right now is, oh, Having a coding boot camp. And then for me, I put, I have a landing page and then our just say, register your interests. And that's why I know if people are interested in your idea or if your idea is something that people are willing to know more about. So right now that's where I am, which is to hopefully do like a pilot course on like something like a coding boot camp by like a simpler version or like a version of it. And then. The next part is sales hall, because that's where, uh, um, normally when you do online courses, the sales is a part of your marketing. So you probably give reasons for why you, why people should buy a cost or even newsletter marketing. Yeah. So that's where I learn a bit on newsletter marketing. When I was running my, my, this, uh, my flatter business selling online courses while for sales, when you were to do physical courses, because that's, my intention is you have to talk to people like you have to meet them for a meeting, and then you have to do sales or you, you just need to know what their needs are. They are causes suitable for them, uh, for coding courses. I don't know how they do sales, but if it's still a problem that people are still, uh, looking for, it might be not as hard as if you were to convince someone one-to-one. Yeah, because from what I've seen so far is that people are generally able to give $10,000 or I think, uh, For some, the, the, the, they will go to like the, the, the other one is that, uh, they will go for free. And, uh, once, once they are able to go, uh, get a job after the bootcamp, then they will have to do like a income share agreement. I think that's the second, like the more. Palatable way of like, you know, transitioning to a tech career because $10,000 or above. Right. It's very expensive for many people, but for some, they are able to fork out the money if I don't dunno how I don't know by like, yeah. So, so that's where I am right now in terms of this business. I mean, I'm explaining all of the different parts of Villa. So from, from my experience is that, uh, the curriculum, you can, you can do it on the fly. I have experienced, I have taught, uh, for two, two years already and I am very confident. I don't know if I'm very confident, but I know that I can create a curriculum because I've been a, I'm a person who graduated from a bootcamp and teaching people who is going to the mid career. I see what concepts I think I can, uh, uh, I can, uh, I can give well as well. And then, uh, yeah, hopefully from this, I can do many iterations to the point that the Kony boot camp will be very good and very useful for the student.

Don Hansen:

Yeah, that, I mean, that's interesting. And when you do start your own coding boot camp and you come up with your own curriculum, um, you know, as long as you're transparent, I think a lot of people would be very open to it because you can, you know, you're probably gonna break it down into sections and built a section, start running students through it, and then start building the next section. You can get tons of good feedback that are like it's instant feedback, right? You can iterate very quickly. That's a really interesting way to build it, but before I forget. I'm very curious about this. You had mentioned tick-tock Instagram and YouTube shorts. What do you have data on your conversion rates into your courses?

Haris Samingan:

Yeah, the, uh, convention grid, I will say right now is very, very low. So what, and I don't know which, uh, platform that the signups are from or the people, because once they click on the register or the CTA button nine, they'll go to a Google form. They will put India, uh, contacts and where they know about this, uh, Uh, this, this coding boot camp. So most of them say it's social media. Some of them say tick tock. So the thing is that that's the only media that I've been using for this Google form of, for this, uh, coding bootcamp. So, um, the conversion rate for that, uh, it's actually pretty low because I have a lot of views on my, okay. I don't know if it's a lot, but, uh, in total, uh, views on me talking about boot camps and whatnot, maybe. Uh, I'll just give a rough estimate. Maybe I have like 70,000 views on my tech talk in total in terms of my Tik TOK videos or the 70. Okay. Maybe a hundred Laos, just put a hundred thousand and then a hundred thousand on Tik TOK videos. And then maybe on my Instagram, maybe I have a rough estimate. Maybe I have like maybe 20. On Instagram for my, uh, uh, they call it, uh, Instagram rules. And then for YouTube or YouTube short is it's not doing well for me, but I guess in total for YouTube charts, it's like maybe, and more. She 4,000 views. So in co combination or the total amount of awareness, I would say it's like hundred and 25 or 130. Let's round up to 130 designers that I get right now is, uh, close to 11. Okay. Yes. So to compensate rain is very bad, but the thing is that that's the whole point because people will still go to your landing page. And, uh, I don't know. So, so the analytics that I have not recorded yet is how many people visit my websites. So, if I can get that number, then I'm okay to share that. But I don't know how many people visit my websites. Uh, I think from that question, I already know what to do next. Now I need to know who yeah. Yeah. Thanks. Yeah. So, uh, but in the middle, I don't know how many people visit my websites. I assume let's take it 5%. So a hundred thousand views, 5%. That's like. So 5k people visit my website. If you're in the world, I would say maybe two care. And then after that, the people who are converted to register their interests, then that's where it goes down to, uh, 11. Yeah. So, uh, it's not, it's not great, but, uh, I think that's how other businesses are doing as well, because they have insane amount of. Uh, insane amount of like subscribers and followers and whatnot is probably around the same conversion rate as well. Yeah. Yeah. That's why I see also from my previous flatter business, I have a YouTube tutorial. I have the link to sign up for the, for the, uh, for the cars. And then most of the time it's like I get what the DK views on a video or 10 K or 5k views. And then people will sign up probably like 10 and then people will buy or probably like. So that's the, that's how it's it's funneled. Yeah. Okay.

Don Hansen:

I think it's, yeah, it's always interesting hearing how people set up that top of. You know, as they become an entrepreneur. And I think, um, I'm just going to kind of sum up some things cause it's we're at that end of the hour already. So all my, okay. No, you're good. You're good. Um, I, I thought this was really interesting. Um, so yeah, it's interesting hearing people set up that top of funnel, what platforms they perform on. I I hear similar experience. Like I don't have a big Instagram or Tik TOK file. I literally just like clip. First of all, my advice, don't just clip things from your podcasts, your videos, and push them on Tik TOK. It just doesn't work. I think native content focusing on the camera, focusing on patterns. Um, different conventions on those native platforms is super helpful. So I'm not going to give advice on that, but I do hear like conversion rates are super low. A lot of use that with short form content conversion rates are super low. Um, that's I mean, that's why I host a podcast. I really think I'm able to build up a little bit more loyalty for people that are willing to stick around and like people that will stick around for my livestreams for like an hour, hour and a half. Um, I think building up loyalty and I think the conversion rates, conversion rates definitely go up when I push things out and I test things versus the short form content. So it's interesting hearing all that. Um, I think, uh, real quick, just so we can wrap it up, um, I think what you share. I think more people want to hear about journeys of developers that do become entrepreneurs. When I put out a polling, 90% of people in my community before they even got a developer job, they're like, I want to work on my own. Right. They already want to work on their, uh, on their own, but they want to get to kind of a comfortable income, uh, first, which you recommended. Okay. Capital's super important. Make sure you have the stone, right. Are you going to be asking parents for money or going back to your old job, et cetera? Um, So I think just hearing your journey and, um, can kind of give people some insight into kind of how hard it is as an entrepreneur, but, um, I love your focus on content creation. Um, I think that's the way to go for any business for the most part. Uh, but kind of just want to sum it up. Cause that's kind of what I gathered. Um, if you had to, so like for aspiring developers or current developers, All of the above. If you had to give like one major piece of advice for anyone that had that, like entrepreneurship spirit, that like one day they're like not going to have a bus, I'm going to be doing the I don't care how hard it is. Right. Um, or maybe they don't realize how hard it is. What would that like one golden nugget of advice be for that entrepreneur?

Haris Samingan:

Well, then that advice. Wow.

Don Hansen:

Um, I know there's a lot you can give, so you gotta

Haris Samingan:

sign. Yeah. So I'll, I'll tell him one advice. I would say, um, I know, it sounds a bit, uh, from what I said, it's actually finding a reliable source of income while doing entrepreneurship because, uh, not many people know that you are actually burning money, uh, or, um, you are because you are living right. You need money to survive, right? So you need a reliable source of income. So it can be. You can actually pursue entrepreneurship as a part-time job. Yeah. Or because for me, I am not, I don't like the nine to five, so I want some flexibility. So you can do freelance as well. So I will recommend you to do something that can pay you a minimal amount of income. So you have to figure out what are you able to survive with. So for me, I think I'm able to survive if $1,500 per month. So if I can get it. That pays me $1,500 per month. That means right. I don't have to work as much. So maybe if I were to work two weeks, uh, and he pays me 1,005, great. The other two weeks, I can focus on my entrepreneurship journey and that's where you can actually eat slower, obviously slower because you are spending two weeks off in a month to work a job that might not be beneficial to you, but then the other two weeks, you can actually pursue what you want without worrying about. What's the Wednesday on the next foot on the table and whatnot. So always have a reliable source of income. And I know that entrepreneurs are people who really want to start this out. I don't want to work anymore. I want to, uh, do my own ideas. Full-time let's go, go, go. But I realized that that, that it's okay. If you really have a lot of. Uh, money to burn. So, uh, at the same time, if you really want to do full time, yes, please save money. Don't don't go in and saying like, I'm going to have $10,000 the next month I quit. So that is unrealistic. Okay. Many businesses. Uh, became famous at least at least, or three years or more. So if you are not in here for the long run, then I wouldn't recommend you to be in the entrepreneurs space, but there are cases, but this is like a very. 0.01% of people who are successful, where they're able to, you know, after two years they are able to, uh, you know, run a very good, sustainable business and whatnot. But for those who try out, please, please, please, uh, have, uh, uh, source of income because that will really help you because, uh, when you were to do your initial idea, That idea sucks. Okay. Most ideas sucks at the first base, your version, one of everything sucks because if you were to ask, if you had to just really look through on all the successful stories, right. They are not version one version 101 or one. Yeah. So, uh, yes, the golden nugget, please get a job that doesn't require you to be a full timer. It can be like a part-time that pays you. Well, it can be freelance as well. Yeah. So that's my. Golden piece, uh, nugget of advice. I

Don Hansen:

love it. That's good advice. Um, because I think. I mean most, most people aren't even cut out for being an entrepreneur. And just yet, you know, you got to build a lot of interesting habits that you never thought you had to tackle. Once you become an entrepreneur and way too many people think way too much of their ideas and those ideas are probably going to fail. Um, I think you were very, very realistic and I can definitely back that up how difficult it is to take that first idea and like try to build a sustainable revenue with it. So, um, I always give advice. Definitely do a part-time on top of a job to pays the bills. I don't do that. I tend to go full force with it. So like definitely do what I say, not what I do. I'm a bad example. If you look at what I've done, but like I can Def. And like, I can definitely empathize with this emotion, this drive to like, I have so many ideas. I think this is really good. I understand the users. I understand like what the concerns are. Like, I just want to go full force with it. And I think it's very helpful to not bottled that emotion up, but just be realistic about it. You know, space out your execution and just make sure you plan it and then you plan for that execution to fail. And so you have a financial backing for when that happens, right. There's so much you have to consider. So yeah. That's good advice. Um, Harris. Yeah, I, I feel like maybe down the road, when you do decide to, um, start a coding bootcamp, we'll, we'll definitely have to review your program, but, um, yeah, let's wrap it up here. If people want to reach out to you and anything else you want to shout out, where could they.

Haris Samingan:

Right. So you can, uh, you can go to my, uh, links. Um, my social handle is Harry's dot summing on. So if you want to know more about co like, I also try to create content on, I mean, I do a lot of coding, boot camps, kind of content, meaning like one. Shot video is like, uh, was a show. You learn coding for fevers, a $10,000 coding bootcamp. So I will actually tell you what's the good and bad between both of them. Right? Um, yeah. So you can go to that as well. Uh, if you're Singaporean, because, uh, my goal is to create a school in Singapore. So if you are Singapore and watching, wow, I don't know how you got this kennel, but good for you, but yeah, you can check us out. Yeah, that's where, uh, my business is. Uh, you can see whether you're interested in the coding bootcamp or maybe the other courses that might be interesting to you. I don't know. Uh, yeah, that's.

Don Hansen:

Awesome. All right, Harris. I really appreciate you coming on. I like talking to other YouTubers, content, creators, and entrepreneurs. I have to do episodes like this more often, but yeah. Seriously. Thank you so much for coming on.

Haris Samingan:

Thank you for having me.