Aug. 1, 2022

Nucamp Coding Bootcamp Review In 2022


Should you go to the coding bootcamp, Nucamp, in 2022? I brought 2 recent graduates and 1 person that just completed the backend program to help you answer that question. As usual, this is a no-BS review of the program. They shared their unfiltered experiences of the program. We went over the good AND the bad. Enjoy!

Katy Senia (guest):
Linkedin - https://www.linkedin.com/in/katydevelops
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/katydevelops
Twitter - https://twitter.com/katydevelops

Ross Gordon (guest):
Linkedin - https://www.linkedin.com/in/rossagordon

Christina Slocumb (guest):
Linkedin - https://www.linkedin.com/in/christina-slocumb
Twitter - https://twitter.com/nyubossmom

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Transcript

Don Hansen:

Welcome back to another podcast episode where we help aspiring developers get jobs and junior developers grow. It has been a while since we reviewed new camp, it's been a long while and I know new camp came out with a new backend program and I heard that they made some changes at least to some of the front end curriculum. So decided to do another review. So we're gonna check it out, see how these three students, um, how their experiences have gone. Um, Katie's currently. In the full stack program, but she did the back and, and then Ross and Christina, you did the full stack, right? Yes. Correct. Okay. Perfect. All right. Well, before we dive into it, we're gonna go ahead and do intros, uh, get a little feel for people. So, um, I guess a few questions, we'll start with you, Katie. Um, I kind of just explained it. You're still in the curriculum, but like, what are you doing currently? Um, and what profession did you come from before this. Yeah,

Katy Senia:

so hi, I'm Katie. Um, I actually have been working in HR for the last seven years, so human resources. Um, so I'm also currently still in HR and doing the full stack bootcamp, um, full full-time as well. So our part-time as well. Um, so I'm just working and trying to finish up before, hopefully trying to land a job in engineering and the end of the year or early next.

Ross Gordon:

Okay. Cool.

Don Hansen:

Thank you. Um, and Ross, we had a question for you. Well, I guess, cuz I, I you're graduated. So, um, do you currently have a position or are you still looking and then, you know, when did you graduate and what profession did you come from?

Ross Gordon:

Sure. Thanks for having me on Don. Um, I am currently on the job hunt for my first role as a front end developer. I graduated back in April, uh, late April. And currently I work at apple on the retail side technical support. So I'm a Mac technician. Uh, I went part-time in initially whenever I started new camp and I've just been kind of coasting, wanted to take a step back so I could, you know, hopefully move into that software position.

Don Hansen:

All right, cool. Thank you. How about you, Christina?

Christina Slocumb:

I, um, also I was in me cohort, um, at new camp with Ross and we graduated around the same time, late April. I have not found, um, a fulltime software engineering position. I've been working with burial variable, assign for, uh, two, a little over two years, but it's, part-time, it's here and there and it's not as in depth as I'd like it to be. So I'm still technically looking for my. Big fancy job.

Don Hansen:

Cool. What'd you do before you decided to move to software engineering?

Christina Slocumb:

I was an accountant two years ago, so gotcha. I was in finance for 15 years and I'm doing this for me.

Don Hansen:

Okay. Love it. All right. I appreciate everyone's introduction. Let's go ahead and jump into things. So when you were choosing coding boot camps, um, You kind of know what you like and what you don't like about it now. So try to ignore that. But when you were first choosing coding boot camp, so why'd you choose new camp and we'll talk over each other. So anyone's free to answer

Ross Gordon:

I can start if that's alright. Um, for me the money, it was a huge part. You know, I was looking into a lot of these and when I'm seeing $20,000 or $2,000, for my current situation. It didn't seem like, you know, if it went terrible, it's $2,000. It's not great. Nobody wants to lose that, but it's much better than being 20 grand in debt. So the flexibility and cost, that is number one for me, it's new,

Don Hansen:

camp's only 2000 for the whole stack. Um,

Ross Gordon:

I did, so I did the web fundamentals, um, which is about 400 bucks. Give or take a few dollars. Um, that's a four week course. I did that. Just kind of to give myself a little bit of refresher and I want to say I spent right around 2000 for the full stack plus mobile program.

Don Hansen:

Gotcha. Um, you might have just said it. How much was the web

Ross Gordon:

fundamentals? It was about three $5,400 in that range. If I remember correctly. Uh, it's basically, you're getting four weeks of a refresher of HTML, CSS and job script.

Don Hansen:

Okay, cool. Thank you.

Katy Senia:

Yeah. And just to piggyback off that, um, I actually, uh, signed up for the it's called a complete software engineering pathway. Um, it's, it's basically every bootcamp they have plus web fundamentals. And even that it costs, I just looked it up last night. It's 42 68. Exactly. So it's extremely, you know, affordable compared to the other options that they're, you know, were out there. I mean, like, I think what their, their marketing says 10 times less. And I think when you do the research, it. Really is about 10 times less than most of the larger food camps.

Christina Slocumb:

Okay, great. So I didn't, I didn't do the full, the, um, the web fundamentals. I did the full stack and it came out to about 18, I think. And that's compared to the student loan debt that I'm paying right now. That's nothing so yes, uh, price was definitely a factor. Um, I did a lot of research before I like months of research before I chose them. And, um, I had a lot of other boot camps that were, you know, on site and I'm in Atlanta. So they were around, you know, they were pretty close, but they all wanted to do that. Um, where you pay them back from your check, after they get you a job or something like that. And I know a few people who are doing that right now and they hate it. So I was just like, no, I'm good on that

Don Hansen:

question. Okay. I don't know why I thought it was more expensive. Huh? So the,

Ross Gordon:

they were affordable, affordable so the full

Don Hansen:

stack, um, I, I was thinking it was like over $6,000 when you include the back end.

Ross Gordon:

So one thing, you know, Don, it may be a little bit more now. I know when Christina and I were at new camp, the back end section was four weeks. It might have been five, four or five, and you are just barely touching the fundamentals. So it was kind of like a front end bootcamp with a month of some backend fundamentals after. Um, now I know there's a whole other program, so. I've looked at the curriculum. I don't know everything that's in it, but it's quite a bit more than what Christina and I signed up.

Christina Slocumb:

Really that's. I mean, we still have access to it, right? Like, are we able to go back in and look at what we've learned or do we get the new stuff? I wasn't sure about that.

Ross Gordon:

Just for the courses that like, I know react was actually, we were the last cohort. To get the old react. There were no hooks included, which that was one thing that, you know, I, I did, I was happy to at least seek it changed. Yeah. Um, I know that we have access to that, but as far as other courses, I don't believe so. As far as like the Python and the other stuff.

Christina Slocumb:

Yeah. Okay. I think the way it works is you have a lot to do. So it wouldn't, it's like we are, we're still in there. it's still boot camp every day

Don Hansen:

graduate.

Ross Gordon:

So, well, it's going

Don Hansen:

jump into your experiences then. What do you guys think about it? Well, , we'll dive into depth quite a bit, but you know, just kind of surface level stuff.

Christina Slocumb:

okay. Well, I have, um, I have good and I have bad, I think, um, it's great that it's affordable. It's great. That it's flexible around your own schedule. It's great that, you know, I think they have really good instructors apart from one that I had. They were all pretty great. It's just, I felt like I maybe would've benefited a little bit more. From being on site from being there every day from, you know, the thing that I didn't want with the other boot camps that were $20,000 is being there every day and the commitment, I think I kind of, my , would've benefited a little more if I had that, somebody on me every day and we can't leave and we have lunch, we come back and we we're hitting the whiteboard. You know? I mean, the flexibility is. But you have to be on it. You have to, you have to make sure you meet those deadlines. And it's, it's, it's very intense in my opinion. Anyway,

Ross Gordon:

I think that's fair. I would agree. I would agree a hundred percent with everything. Christina just said. You know, as far as instructors, I had, um, a couple I wasn't crazy about the rest of 'em were awesome. So I, I, one thing I did really enjoy about new camp that I was skeptical, skeptical about going in is. All of the instructors are part-time. So all these people have jobs. And at first I thought that was weird. And what I realized is a lot of them, they want to be there, you know, they want to be teaching and they have that passion. So, um, like my, my react native instructor was probably my favorite. Yes. And. What was his name? He helped me. His name was, uh, Matt Moser. I believe I'm saying that correctly. Forgive me, Matt. If you're seeing this, um, he was my favorite out of the whole experience and we took react native right after react. That's where I started to, you know, struggle a little bit more, you know, you're getting out of bootstrap. It's, it's just getting more technical. And Matt, I felt like taught me react and react native in that five weeks or four weeks or whatever it was. Um, I had other instructors who, you know, you give feedback at the end of every week. And at the end of every course, my web fundamentals instructor, um, camera off day one, it's kind of weird, you know, you're, you're, uh, you're paying for an instructor and instructor was good. I gave the feedback next week. It was turned on, but you know, that's something like, I want to be able to look at somebody, especially in the time we're in where a lot of stuff is virtual. Oh, I, I didn't expect that. So that was my first impression on the web fundamentals. But other than those two instances, I have nothing but great things to say about every instructor I have. Okay.

Katy Senia:

Yeah. And likewise, um, I, I have almost only good things to say. I had one instructor that I would say was. Was maybe not the best fit for just how the program was set up, but everybody else was phenomenal. Um, I had a really, really great instructor for one fundamental startup. So started for watching. Thank you. Um, and he was probably just the best, like first instructor to have really motivating and engaging and really, you know, held you accountable and got you kind of ready to like go for the whole self kind of pace. Um, you know, the way it's set up in new camp. So that was really

Ross Gordon:

great.

Don Hansen:

Okay. I like it. It's a pretty good start. Um, I'll kind of write things down. I, um, we'll go over a couple things maybe towards like the second half of it, but kind of curious, what did you think of the actual curriculum and material?

Ross Gordon:

For me? It was. Solid, you know, I, I was, I wasn't quite as aware as it it's pretty outdated and everything that I will say, everything that I'm bringing up, it does seem, has been acknowledged and a lot of stuff has been updated, but, um, there were no hooks and the react section and as react is starting to finally come together for me, I'm realizing like, man, I would've, I would've loved to have an instructor there. You know, telling me this stuff that is extremely important. Um, we tend to use versions that are a little outdated. Um, I think like, I think it was bootstrap for, um, the react was a little behind and not to jump too far ahead, but there's a, so there's a self-guided career services and it's, I think it's a six week thing that you take afterwards on your. And that's where I was like, what is this? And it just felt super outdated. It felt like I was in high school watching a video of how to write a resume and just being completely honest there. Everything else was awesome. But, um, that was the one thing that I was like, I just, I don't know about this us.

Christina Slocumb:

I think, um, I might not have to agree it was, you could, after we graduated. We, we still dig in every day. We're still building. So we know firsthand what's missing right after you go through the entire curriculum and we're done with it. And now we have to build sites from scratch ourselves. We're like, where was this part of the course or. There was something missing. Or if, if you're wondering, like I didn't go over data structures and algorithms almost at all. I have to do that three times a week right now because right. They didn't, it it's not included. Right. But we knew that before going in, I didn't see a arrays and hash maps and everything on the curriculum. So there's things that are, that are missing, but there's gonna be something missing with every boot camp everywhere you go. You're gonna have to finish your. This is your life. This is something that you've chosen to do. You have to dig in. So there's gonna be something missing everywhere, but I think I'm, I'm happy to have lifetime access to the course. So when it's updated, I go back and retake it myself. So I was, I, I I'm, I agree with Ross. It's a little, it's a little, especially the career curriculum I expected. Zoom calls with my career advisor and we're going over interview questions. Like that's what I expected because they kind of, you know, hype it up a bit where, you know, you get a full instructor he's dedicated to you. And,

Ross Gordon:

and it was just so I did not to. I'm sorry, I didn't wanna cut off. Um, you do get four sessions with a career coach and I actually really liked my career coach. I took two of them. Um, he actually stepped down for the summer. So I think I have to finish the last two of somebody else, but I had very valuable zoom calls, uh, one hour sessions, but the material you go through on your own, it was from a university. I can't remember which university, but it felt like it came out in 1998. Um, it was just, it was odd, but, um, that was one thing I did have some good success with my career coach.

Christina Slocumb:

Well, I think maybe I just, I haven't done it yet, to be honest, I haven't arranged it. We've been emailing and it's just, you know, same responses kind of like robotic responses. I guess everybody has the same questions. Right. It's just, I feel like I'm not talking to a person. I feel like I'm talking to a chat bot. Which with the AI nowadays is really good anyway. but it's just, yeah, I, I'm not there yet. And I'm, you know, interviewing and, and bouncing around and recruit calls and it's like a lot happening, so maybe I'll take advantage of it, but, you know, I wouldn't be surprised if I made it without that, that person

Katy Senia:

And I would agree. Um, I, I think my experience is a little bit different coming from the backend first because they did update from my experience. They did update data structures and algorithms a lot more on like the actual backend course with Python. Um, so we jumped in and went through that, like in the first five weeks. Um, so that is good. It was really fast. So I know I'm gonna have to, you know, go back and do a lot more like deep dive on that when I'm done with, uh, the full sack. Um, and then I think, I think this might be relatively new, but they did add like a job hunting bootcamp. Um, so I. It's something additional you could add on, I believe it's like four $29. Um, but it's my understanding is it's kind of set up, like to go through like interview, practice questions and S and algorithms more. Um, but I believe it's, so they might just started that, but I have that the so more insight at that time.

Ross Gordon:

And that's why, like, a lot of the stuff that I was unhappy with seems to be. Ludo and everybody at new camp, they seem to take all the feedback pretty graciously, which I think is good. You know? Um, it's good to know that this program is getting a little bit better for the next batch of students and so on and so on. And they don't seem to stand firm on anything. They're welcome to any feedback.

Don Hansen:

Yeah.

Ross Gordon:

I . Don Hansen: I mean, I, you know, Um, I've talked to him quite a few times. We've hopped on zoom just to chat about random stuff. And one thing I will say about it, he doesn't get offended easily and he does, he's pretty open to feedback and he's pretty grounded with it. Now. I I've told him before. Sometimes he drinks his own Koolaid a little bit too often, but a lot of CEOs do a lot of coding bootcamp, founders. Um, so I challenged quite a few things with him, but I do think he takes the feedback very seriously. He can't always apply it right away and that's understandable and he's probably looking at a lot of feedback. Um, and I would even disagree on some of the choices he's made, but I, I think he does very much care about what people say with the feedback, which, which is awesome. And even just to echo. Um, the sentiment with the self-paced career, whatever. Um, I've actually had some people that didn't, they were kind of too shy to come on, which is understandable. And they echoed the same thing they, uh, mentioned. I should kind of bring that up and ask you guys about it and you were transparent right from the beginning about it. So I do appreciate that. Um, it sounds like that needs some work and, um, it sounds like. I mean, it's a pretty cheap coding boot camp. So he's essentially, it, it he's outsourcing it to a college curriculum, at least parts of it, maybe. Um, I don't know what else he is outsourcing, but that is the strategy for a very cheap coding boot camp to be able to provide something like this. Um, I would argue though, uh, Christina, after analyzing like a lot of curriculums from very expensive coding, boot camps. There are curriculums where it does teach you everything that's gonna make you hireable, but at a very high price tag. And so you have to decide, is that even worth it? Or can I just learn it on my own afterwards? Right. Can I just supplement on my own? So, I mean, essentially as program is making trade offs, um, and my questions basically are, is it making the right trade offs? So, but

Christina Slocumb:

yeah, go ahead. Oh, I, I think, um, I don't wanna say you get what you pay for

Ross Gordon:

but I, you do true, you know? Yeah. It's, it's not necessarily bad.

Christina Slocumb:

Correct. I, I just think that, um, I made the choice to not spend 20,000, so that means that I am going to need to supplement that additional 18,000 myself so, I mean, there's, you know, like hack reactor. is it galvanize or general assembly? They have super intense curriculums. And I think when you're working in a cohort, in a room with like, you have to be focused, that helps. And then repetitively every day. Like I have to touch in order to learn something. I don't know about you guys, but I have to do it like three or four times. So I think being in a cohort with people who are teaching you every day, that helps retention. So.

Ross Gordon:

I get it. I get it. I don't look at the, you get what you pay for, you know, it sounds, sounds kinda blunt, but I think it's, you know, when, when I was looking at these numbers and Don your channel really helped me form my decision on choosing you camp because I'm seeing like, all right, so there's flat iron there's general assembly. There's hack reactor, there's all these cool ones that look awesome that I would love to go to. I, um, I'm fortunate to not have a bunch of debt and I really, really didn't want to pick that all up. And, you know, I'm, I'm seeing all these YouTubers who are saying like, yeah, just do this in six months. And then you're making a hundred K and I just, then I'm seeing a lot of stuff about people who are getting jobs, making. 40 K. And then the bootcamp is saying, well, yeah, you still have to pay us back. And these aren't necessarily software jobs, you know, it might be it related just barely. And I also, I was fortunate to, I know two people personally, who attended new camp in the last couple of years and, um, a friend of mine, Seth from apple told me like, Hey, this is a great program, but you have to supplement. And if you do the bare minimum, you probably aren't gonna come out, you know, a master. That helped me tremendously because I, um, I've had a, I think I pay like 40 bucks a month for code academy. I've had that for about a year and what I would do as we're going through, you know, certain concepts throughout the week, I would supplement it with other stuff. And I just planned like that from day one. So to me, like I still am happy with the cost, you know, over being in any kind of tremendous debt.

Don Hansen:

That's a good strategy for new students.

Christina Slocumb:

it's good. It's a lot of things that you have to do on your own. Like we were doing them before we joined the bootcamp. So of course we're gonna be doing them throughout the bootcamp. Tute me. Course, Sarah, everything. We literally, I started a squad on, on what is it? Career karma that right. To be self taught. So like everything that's free and some things that are paid, we're doing it.

Don Hansen:

I think, especially given the times we are in now. I think one of the best options for aspiring developers is to be very frugal with a lot of their expenses. And I. the best, one of the best choices you can make, and I'm not even trying to sell new camp, just their pricing model. One of the best choices you can make is to a lot of people want to try the self-taught route, but it's really tough with zero support. And you have to build up that support and relationships and find a community. And like it's a lot of effort, right? And if you can find something that is just, you know, a few thousand dollars that doesn't put you a massive debt and it gets you like 80% of the way. And then you, you just, the thing is when you go through a curriculum like this, Christina, you said, well, you know the holes once you come out of it, right. Cause pretty much every coding bootcamp is gonna teach you what you need to learn to get that job. And usually people just, usually the curriculums move too fast or they miss over things. But by the end you kind of have a good idea of what you still need to. That's what pretty much, almost every coding bootcamp will teach you. So if you have that, you kind of mix a self-taught and coding bootcamp world to find this in between medium, that's gonna be very affordable for people where you can still hold your jobs and you don't have to, you know, in the middle of like what this recession is starting, just quit your job and go to a full-time coding bootcamp, which is much riskier. Right. Um, it is, it's a middle ground that I honestly do think people should consider a little bit more and. I've seen advertisement and lie and lie after lie, after lie with all these big coding boot camps. I know exactly what people actually land those 100 K jobs. It's not the typical student and there there's a lot of ways where they will exclude. They're able to exclude, um, salaries from, um, the data that they present and a big one is did they graduate on time? We only show data for people that graduated on time. And if you didn't, you had to roll back. You're not one of our top students. We're not gonna include you in the data. And essentially, so it's gonna keep that the, the numbers boosted quite a bit,

Ross Gordon:

almost every coding bootcamp

Don Hansen:

lies in that way. Um, I've seen it time and time again, and it gets, it gets actually much worse than that. But, um, yeah, so I, I, yeah, I'm essentially, I'm saying like, you do get what you pay for, and that's not necessarily a bad. cool.

Ross Gordon:

Right.

Christina Slocumb:

Especially once we get hired. . Ross Gordon: Exactly.

Don Hansen:

Exactly. Um, so another complaint I heard was people wish they would've had more one-on-one time with instructors or just gotten more one-on-one support. What do you guys

Ross Gordon:

think about that? I would.

Katy Senia:

I would agree. I think I had some instructors that were, I, I believe like some of them might not work full time jobs. Like, like I have won a, some maternity, I believe right now. And she was like, way more like available for us to just like jump on during the week. But I've had other instructors that like, you know, they work like 60 hours a week and they, they're not able to do that. They're able to do like 10. So I think it does depend on like what type of instructor you have and maybe what's going on their personal life as well, and how going they are able to do one on ones with you.

Ross Gordon:

Okay. Um, you know, Katie, I don't know the cohort size your, your in currently, but Christina and I, there were there wasn't too many of us, I would say. Would you say eight, maybe 8 0 5 or six. So it was seven, you know, a couple people dropped out as we got a little further and I didn't really feel that there was, you know, the one on one time felt okay for me. And I actually had reached out. There was a couple weeks where I was struggling and I actually got some help outside of, you know, the standard hours. And I will say my experience was pretty good in that sense. I had a couple of, uh, I know my, my bootstrap instructor. Um, she got on a call with me and it was like her, I wanna say it was her child's birthday or something. And I felt like, almost felt bad. She was awesome. And you know, she jumped on and helped me out. And I, uh, I didn't have that experience. Now, I don't know what a standard cohort is. Um, I was surprised at how small they were and Christina and I, but yeah, I assume I think they were all under 12. That's what I thought I was signing up for 12.

Christina Slocumb:

that's what I, that's what they was. They were telling us when we signed up that it was 12. How big was yours?

Katy Senia:

Uh, I think all of ours have been 12 to 15, so I think it's been about double that, but five to six, actually, I can see how that would be easier to get one on one time. I mean, sometimes we would on Saturdays, like if you stay late, a lot of the instructors were able to like stay a little bit after, but I think just the 12 to 15 people. Yeah, it was, it was a little bit more, um, difficult to schedule. I would say for our

Ross Gordon:

group. So one thing that's popping up for me right now is, and I felt that some weeks, this was me. If I was struggling with something, I felt that it kind of in the virtual setting, it took away from say Christina's experience. So if I'm hung up on a certain concept, I'm having a hard time with something we're sharing screens. I did feel that that would kind of take away from. The whole cohort's progress. If that makes sense. Um, there was no admission really it's, uh, take this quiz on w three schools. It's honor system. That was one thing that, you know, I feel like I, I came in here very much as a beginner, so I felt that I was kind of in the middle where I wasn't the smartest person in the class. I might have been in the middle there. Um, but that was one thing that's popping up, not to get too random here, but I would have liked to see. Admissions be handled just a little bit different with, Hey, you're ready for this, or, Hey, you need to take the web fundamentals. I had taken two or three months of code academy on my own. So I had thought, you know, I'm still very new to this. I'm going to sign up for the fundamentals. But I do think that, you know, the, the quiz I would like to see that get updated to, or more personalized, just a new.

Don Hansen:

It's good feedback.

Christina Slocumb:

Um, yeah, it really is. Especially since I know exactly what he's talking about. it was,

Ross Gordon:

um, w three schools is great. Not, not saying anything there. Um, but I was surprised to see that was the admission test.

Christina Slocumb:

Yeah. Especially since I already taken that right. We're on our own. We're taking quizzes all the time and I'm like, huh, I got a 98. Does that mean I'm ready? Must be ready. And then I get in there and I'm like, holy hell, what is going on? what have I done with my life? And I think the, the time that I have with my instructors was definitely not enough, but that's just me being greedy. Like I, I am one of those students where I'm like, I will work on in something for two hours. Even though they say 20 minutes, I wanna, you know, get there on my own this way I can retain more. And I don't ever have to have this problem again. And then, especially with Matt, Moses, like react native, he was everything. I call him bossman. I would just like, I'll get on slack and I'd say, bossman, I need a call. He'd be like, okay, give me 10 minutes. It's nine 30 at night. And that call lasted maybe an hour. Like he was, he was everything that you, you hoped to get from the instructors at a boot. And then I had, and he

Ross Gordon:

had a newborn.

Christina Slocumb:

Right. He had a newborn baby cohort.

Ross Gordon:

this baby was like a month old. He was, he was awesome

Christina Slocumb:

on and then I had a cohort, um, instructor, I forget, I think it was react, which is like the hardest course you've ever taken in your life for me anyway. So I needed that for the react course and you know, I, I wasn't getting it. And he was literally like 20 miles from me, so we could have, we could have gotten together if, if it was open. Chatted more and he responded, but I felt like he, he, this is gonna sound really bad. He helped me more than I wanted him to help me if you understand, right? Like he gave me a lot more Matt. Moser's like, no, this is what you need to be thinking about. This is what you need to remember the concept of go find out, come back. I'll be right. like, he would wait for me to get there. He'd gimme a little hints, but he wouldn't gimme the answer and I thoroughly appreciate that. I wanna cause if somebody gives you the answer, it's not the same. Right. If you get the answer, it's like, great. Okay. How am I gonna remember how to do that next time? so that was just my experience.

Don Hansen:

Okay, Matt? Uh, yeah. I remember shout out to Matt. Yeah, he was, that's a good instructor. Hopefully he's compensated for that.

Ross Gordon:

Um, one thing, you know, with the react section that's coming up. I notice on the, we did workshops every Saturday. And then the solutions would get posted by this instructor. And that's where I'm thinking about what Christina just said. I need to struggle. I, I need, I need somebody who's gonna help me struggle and figure it out rather than, than just say, Hey, here's what's going on. And then sure, I have it submitted. And I, I get the assignments completed and everything, but did I really get it? I felt that react started to come together. I didn't really learn anything in react until react native. And then that's when everything kind of started to just makes sense a little bit more, and I felt that that was a huge factor.

Don Hansen:

Okay. Um, a lot of good feedback on react. I kind of wanna hear a little bit more on the back end program, Katie. Um, what did you love about it and what do you hate about it?

Katy Senia:

Um, I really love the, I mean, I thought all the technologies were very relevant. I mean, Python, like that was my first introduction to Python and I really liked it. And honestly, it's my favorite language now. So I really just did this complete software engineering track to just kind of see if it was something I was gonna be able to do for myself and just something I was gonna be able to stick with. Um, so when I started in backend, I really had. Low expectations of like what I was gonna be able to do. Cause I'm pretty sure I wanna do more front end work, like later on. Um, but I was actually surprised. I thought they did a pretty good job at making it very like learnable. If you have no experience, um, I thought Python and SQL were very relevant. Like. Uh, most people I know of that got developer jobs after boot camp, one of the things they stressed was learning SQL. Um, and that was my first introduction to it as well. So I think they did a really good job at that. Um, and I really, I, I really don't have any complaints about it. I really had a really good time in the back end. Even though I had low expectations, so,

Ross Gordon:

yeah.

Don Hansen:

Okay. You had mentioned that they went over data structures and algorithms a little bit. Um, yes. Did you, I guess, how, how in depth did you go? Did you even touch on a big O notation or mm-hmm . Katy Senia: You did, we Um, I, I mean, you know, you, you're going really fast through the curriculum. So I would say we had like about a week on it. So it's definitely an introduction, at least for me, you're gonna have to, you know, go back and supplement it, but it was at least a good introduction. I would say I had no experience with any of that. So we went over big O um, time complexity, I mean, all the other larger data structures and algorithm. And I, I think they did a pretty good introduction on that in the back end.

Ross Gordon:

Okay.

Don Hansen:

That's definitely good to know. Um,

Ross Gordon:

I mean, did you not do a

Katy Senia:

big, oh, in the, in the front stack

Christina Slocumb:

at all? I taught myself data structures and algorithms in order to prepare for these big Fang interviews and things . So I dug in and I learned, and I did it on my own so it's, it's, you know, it's pretty cool that you got to do it in the, at. I think that's

Don Hansen:

very

Ross Gordon:

cool. Yeah. I definitely would have signed up for the program Katie's and if it was available at the time, just because I am, I'm digging deep into all of this now. And while I do feel that, you know, I am looking to work in front end, but I do feel that it would've been, even if it was a week or two of the most fundamental stuff, I. I definitely, you know, I had a couple assessments where I was like, what is going on? And I actually took three or four weeks to kind of step away from the job hunt, just to hammer that out, you know, kind of get some fundamentals done.

Don Hansen:

You have to do, um, it,

Ross Gordon:

you absolutely have to do that.

Don Hansen:

It looks like. So I know the job hunting thing is new, and I know none of you went through that actual, I don't know if they call it like job hunting bootcamp or whatever, but that's the job hunting portion. Um, because when you're talking about like the self-paced career, uh, what do you call it? Career services? Is that the job hunting program or is that within the full sack program?

Ross Gordon:

That's just included within the full sack program. Gotcha. So I

Don Hansen:

would cuz.

Ross Gordon:

I remember,

Don Hansen:

um, yeah, even just looking at it, they do touch on data structures and algorithms. It does look like that and the job hunting thing. So if you are struggling, maybe, I mean, if you, if you have resources, you know, keep using those resources, but there is that available. I don't know how good it is though. So actually anyone watching on YouTube, let me know when the comments, if you are actually going through the program. Um, yeah, I'm gonna

Christina Slocumb:

go look because that, I didn't see that

Don Hansen:

yeah, yeah, definitely. And reach out, like if you're questioning, um, do I need to know the basics of this before I get into this, et cetera, like feel free to reach out to Luda or whoever you can, but definitely check it out. Um, Katie, how did you feel about the transition cuz you're a few weeks into the full stack. How do you feel about the transition going from the backend program to the full stack? Did they transition well?

Ross Gordon:

So I had

Katy Senia:

six weeks off in between. So after I was done with the back end, I kind of just did a little bit of supplement myself. Um, so I did things like Scruma and co academy. Um, but I would say the transition's pretty good. I think bootstrap is very like an intuitive to start off with, especially, um, Since reacts next. And it sounds like I think everybody agrees. That's the hardest. And I think I'm gonna be the one of the first cohorts to take the updated react with hooks course. Um, so I think, you know, transitioning to bootstrap is very intuitive. I mean, um, we're on week three and we're just getting into JavaScript component. So I think they did a pretty good job transitioning in my opinion, at least

Don Hansen:

how comfortable do you feel with vanilla CSS without boot?

Katy Senia:

I, I feel pretty comfortable. I would say HTML and CSS are very comfortable. It's kind of JavaScript where I still, like, no matter how much the supplement, I still always struggle with

Ross Gordon:

JavaScript, but

Don Hansen:

of course it's always JavaScript. How about, uh, Ross and Christina? How about you? How do you feel about CSS?

Ross Gordon:

It's been a strength for me. I'm sorry, Christina. You can go ahead. No,

Christina Slocumb:

I think, um, Eh, it's just, I'm, I'm comfortable enough. Right. But with the introduction of bootstrap, it's like, who's going back. So , I just, um, it's not super hard to, to dig into

Don Hansen:

that. Bootstrap, I would, I would argue. And I really wanna emphasize this for all of you, cuz all of you are seeking jobs. Do not rely on bootstrap. That is something that's gonna be minority positions, get comfortable with CSS. Um, I would argue Java script. It needs to be your strength and CSS is probably gonna be your secondary, but um, don't lean on a company using bootstrap.

Ross Gordon:

Okay. So you just brought that up and it just kind of gave me a. Just a reminder that, so one of the first assessments I took on my job on it was take home assessment and you're basically given a, a pretty basic, it was like a scenario where, Hey, a junior developer below you didn't finish this. Here's what you need to finish. And I was leaning hard on bootstrap, um, specifically because it, it was coming pretty easy to me. And I was making some landing pages, just for some friends and some businesses. It was a good way to practice. And I had made like 10, just as an example of responsive nap bars. And then I get into this first assessment where they want me to use just vanilla JavaScript. CSS HTML. And I can do that, but I was leaning so hard on bootstrap for so long that it, it kind of threw me off. So you bring up a good point and I've been diving more into the fundamentals, um, just through you, to me and some courses on my own. And, um, the CSS stuff has always been fairly easy to me. And that's, that's one of my strengths, but, um, vanilla JavaScripts. I, I wish it would've touched a little bit more. Even in the web fundamentals, it was kind of like a, a brief four week thing. I didn't, I didn't learn a ton in the fundamentals, but it was a great refresher. Um, it would be cool if it was just a little bit more in depth on vanilla JavaScript.

Don Hansen:

Okay. That's good to know. So you feel like you wish they would've added a little bit more, so you really had the JavaScript fundamentals.

Ross Gordon:

Yeah, and this could also just be what I need to work on. Personally, there is a refresher section in the curriculum, so, um, I know like before react, you do some vanilla JavaScript, but I think part of the problem for me was I was practicing on my own with just bootstrap. It was easy to me. And then kind of, as you're saying, like, I'm not seeing a ton of positions asking for it. Not many companies are asking for it. I personally made the mistake of just kind of leaning on it a little too much. I was kind of using it as a crutch cause it was one of my strengths. And then I get this fairly easy task of a nav bar and I'm like, whoa, what am I doing? Just because I had been doing bootstraps so often.

Don Hansen:

Okay. That's fair. Was, was I gonna say, um, I think, I think I have a good idea of the curriculum. Um, we touched on the instructors. We touched on kind of just the support and we had some mixed feedback with that. Um, and I would highly recommend you do take advantage of those sessions, Christina, to meet with the advisor. If you have the four, try one, see if it works out for you. But I would argue, um, most people actually, I shouldn't say most people, a lot of people don't take advantage of that. Even like $20,000 coding, boot camps. It is when you can get that hands on experience, um, you have a better sh I, I don't know, you probably have a decent shot of, um, even just getting. Practical advice with the context of your conversation that a, um, that a self-paced curriculum will not give you sometimes just having a conversation, even just like expressing your concerns, but you're worried about, like, I gotta supplement all this, all this. They probably heard that they probably heard some of those complaints from other students as well, and they might even be able to say, oh, okay. So what are you doing to solve that? Oh, I, I don't know if I'd recommend that I actually recommend this. Most students actually find. Piece of curriculum way better, or they find these job posting sites a lot more helpful. I know our curriculum kind of says this, but, and that's the kind of conversation you get when you talk to a real person, I highly recommend you take advantage of that. Um, that's just kind of an extra tidbit. I'll do it. Awesome.

Ross Gordon:

okay.

Don Hansen:

Um, I feel like, I feel like I kind of have a good understanding. Every of everything. I'm kind of curious about your experiences with other students. What do they do to help your, you engage with your cohorts or your classes? Do they do like pair programming? Do you work on any group projects?

Ross Gordon:

There is the option too. Sorry, you can go ahead Katie. Oh, no, you can go ahead. Okay. Um, I know that. So for instance, like the portfolio projects, you have the option of doing, um, they're optional altogether. So that was one thing to me. They should be required. Um, that's huge. Um, but you have the option to work on it either with yourself or I'm sorry, by yourself or with someone. Um, as far as peer programming, though, it was kind of like, we're all gonna get through the assignment. There wasn't really a project or anything where you were paired up with anybody. However, we did have breakout rooms on zoom on Saturdays. So. You know, we would go through the material for the week and then we would be moved over to a breakout room where we can work, you know, with another student or two students, there wasn't a ton of us. It was often like groups of three or four. Uh, then the instructors would bounce between the two rooms we all meet together. At the end, I would have liked to see something required to where it's like, Hey, Ross, work on this with Christina or work on this with Katie, you know? That would've given me just a lot of good experience with jumping outta my comfort zone. Um, so I, I do, I would've liked to see that a little bit more. Okay.

Katy Senia:

Yeah. And I, I would agree completely with Ross. Um, and like one of the, like my, my cohort group was larger, but we would have either like groups of twos on Saturdays or groups of threes and, you know, some of the times, like I would get into our breakout room and like, you know, we'd be there for a second. Like, and the other students' cameras would be turned off, you know, like mics off. And, and like, I think a couple times I just jumped off about saying anything. So that could make it difficult. Um, I think like our cohort. Like we got like a little group of like three or four of us. And one of the feedback that I left for one of the instructors was it would be nice to just pick our, our breakout rooms if possible. And she actually did implement that the next time for our, our cohort. And it was really helpful. Um, you know, everybody was engaged that way and we, we got to work on our projects together and I actually really benefited myself. So I think if, you know, if anyone else is experiencing that, it was super helpful, um, that, you know, she was able to let us do that.

Ross Gordon:

Okay.

Christina Slocumb:

Um, I. Yes. I agree with Ross that it would be good to have collaborated more. My comfort zone is to work alone. That's just, I'm an introvert and I'd rather not, um, have to wait for somebody to do a portion of the project or, um, have somebody not turn it in and it's not done, or, you know, I kind of deal with that in real life. So. You lose when you're alone, you lose the collaboration part of it, which is a huge part of the. You have to collaborate and whether or not you're comfortable with it. It's, you know, 90% of the jobs out there, you have to collaborate. So it would've been good. Did I wanna be put in a breakout room with people? No, absolutely. No. Did I have my camera off sometimes? Yeah, because I. I need you to turn off your mic because I can't concentrate like the, I experienced a couple of times where I would suggest you put me in a room alone, just because we're all working on the project. And you know, these few people are talking and I can't concentrate and I can mute me. I can't mute you. So I I'm hearing everything and it's delaying me and I need to turn this in tonight. So, um, there's good. And. I just, I have to get outta my comfort zone. Like we're all said, like, you have to make it work.

Ross Gordon:

I did really like the slack channel was great and that was like a huge community. It was awesome to be, you know, if you got stuck and you weren't hearing from an instructor, there were people lining up to help out. And that's one thing I still go on there every day or two. And just to kind of see what's going on, check out the job search. Um, it's that was really valuable. So I, um, I have nothing but good things to say about the slack channel. Although I didn't post in there a ton, I would often, you know, review other issues that, you know, students were having. And sometimes it was a problem I was having and I got a lot of. Good value outta that.

Christina Slocumb:

And it's you find that you could actually help? I was so surprised that I could help even being so new and these people are having the problems that I just had. You're able to help that slack channel is everything. And that's the way we still talk to instructors and have meetings, and he's still answering our questions. Like it's amazing.

Don Hansen:

I've heard pretty good things about the slack community. He's a pretty loyal community. Um, I, I have a question. I, I want inside information. He does these live streams every Friday. I think he still does these, does he post in the slack channel for everyone to hop onto the live stream?

Ross Gordon:

He posts them

Katy Senia:

before.

Ross Gordon:

Oh yeah. I think it's 10 minutes before. Okay. Gotcha. He is a pretty,

Don Hansen:

I feel like he has a pretty loyal audience cuz he has, um, new, camp's a bit of a smaller channel. So I always wondered why those livestream numbers were up a little bit, but I, I think it's cuz he has a lot of loyal people, uh, wanting to support new camp. Yeah.

Christina Slocumb:

They're loyal. They're helpful. It's good's a good, cool bunch of

Ross Gordon:

people. Mm-hmm yeah, I actually, I really enjoyed a lot of his live streams. The, the Q and a is I kind of drifted away from. Um, but there were quite a few where, you know, it's an instructor. I think Matt actually was on there one week and there's some good, uh, some good streams that I, I did watch, but I don't, I don't recall Ludo like spamming anything. It was, you know, a post before and I would see it and sometimes I would join sometimes I wouldn't, but I, I guess I never really paid attention to the numbers. And how many people were were in those stream.

Don Hansen:

I'm the only one that cares about that stuff. um, so that's why we watch

Christina Slocumb:

you, John. Cause you, you get in there. We like that.

Don Hansen:

Oh, I do. I appreciate that. Um, so I think, I feel like I have a good, good amount of information. Um, I think we touched on everything that I wanted to touch on. I'm gonna challenge you kind of with a final question here. what type of student wouldn't be a good fit for new camp? What type of personality?

Ross Gordon:

Lazy.

Katy Senia:

Mm. Um, like I think of some of the critiques I see in slack, or, you know, sometimes you'll see somebody post like, oh, is this just like a glorified unity course? And you know, I think some people don't have the expectation that a lot of the work is self-guided. So I think that's a good expectation to go in there with is that, you know, you do meet Saturdays, but most of it is self-guided and, you know, you have to kind of hold yourself accountable and, you know, do all the work and like read the resources they list at the end of the lessons, um, to really be successful in

Ross Gordon:

my opinion. Okay. Yeah. I, I would say if you are seeking a zero to 100 bootcamp, new camp is not for you, but I think it can get you there eventually. Um, not by the end of the program, but if you are willing to put in the time, put in the effort, supplement, you know, some extra, extra work on your own, then it can be very valuable. I did feel like when I graduated. And I started, you know, like there was kind of a, now what scenario and I'm working on projects polishing up the portfolio. That's when I got like super, super excited. So I was trying to keep up and when I could just take a breath and then revisit certain concepts, that's when I was like, this is what I want to do for a living. And it was just very valuable to me. So if you see these, these cool, polished up YouTube commercials, advertising, you know, this like. I, I don't know what hack reactor's curriculum is, but that's one of the, the cool ones I saw. And when I was trying to decide, I was kind of thinking like, oh, that seems like it could be zero to a hundred. I don't know if it is or not. Uh, but this is more so, like, I feel like it kind of got me to like 75% with the knowledge of what I need to do to get to a hundred.

Don Hansen:

Okay.

Christina Slocumb:

I, um, I agree. I don't know if it's as high as 75 for me, but I think it's just because like I have a whole life to do so it's time is extremely valuable and I never have enough of it, which is a part of the reason why I chose camp. So, um, I think maybe it's more like 60 for. Maybe 60 and then you really have to do everything. Everything you have to take advantage of those resource lights that they give you. After every lesson you have to go and code, then you have to practice. They give you code challenges and, uh, a lot of third party activities. Do those do them because you're gonna, you're gonna learn something that's not in the course. So it's, it's important to do everything yourself. It's it. It's not expensive, but it's very time expensive. So you have to pay with time and that's how you get better. So

Don Hansen:

that makes sense. All right. I really like how all of you laid out realistic expectations for students? Um, I mean, again, that's all one of these reviews is I'm not here to sell any of the programs. I want students to have confidence that they, that their expectations align with what the coding bootcamp's. So we get to talk about these transparent or share these transparent student ex experiences, do it in all my programs. So, I mean, it's a decision you have to make, you know, is new camp, right. For you or not. Um, but, um, I always say this, if you are in doubt and you know, like if new camp is one of your top choices, but you're still in doubt, send Lu to an email, challenge him on the things that you're in doubt with. Seriously. Um, I encourage you to do that with any program. That's pretty much it. . Yeah, this is awesome. I'm glad we did the new camp review. It's been a while. Um, let's go and do our outros. Um, Katie, if people wanted to reach out to you and anything else you wanna shout out, where could they reach you?

Katy Senia:

Yeah, so I tried to make all of my socials the same thing. So my LinkedIn GitHub, Instagram, Twitter, it's all Katie K a T wide develops. Um, and you can find me there on any of those platforms.

Don Hansen:

Awesome. How about you Russ?

Ross Gordon:

Uh, my door's always open. Add me on LinkedIn. Let's connect. However I can help anybody. You know, I, uh, I came into this very much as a beginner and one of the things I'm able to do in my current role is mentor. And I, I would love to continue to do that is I, you know, get more knowledgeable. So anybody who has any questions about new camp, anything at all, reach out to me, LinkedIn, it's probably the best place if you want to go personal. Um, Instagram's the only other social media I have. That's my first and last name. That's about it for me.

Don Hansen:

Love it. How about you, Christina? Um,

Christina Slocumb:

you can definitely get me on LinkedIn. It's um, the LinkedIn slash I N slash Christina dash slum. And you can do my Twitter. I didn't know I needed a Twitter, but apparently in the tech world with the podcast and everything, I needed a Twitter. So it's NYU

Don Hansen:

boss. Okay, love it. All right. Well, yeah. Um, anyone watching, let me know. I also did a kind of a, or I gave a request a little while back, um, I'm very curious if anyone actually does do the job hunting portion, let me know how it goes. Cause I know that's pretty much brand new. I know backend's still fairly new. So, um, if your experiences were the same or even if they differed, let me know the comments on YouTube, but, uh, Katie Ross, Christina, thanks so much for coming on. See

Ross Gordon:

everything we see. Thanks Don.